Not a riot
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@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/uspp/6_2_20_statement_from_acting_chief_monahan.htm
United States Park Police acting Chief Gregory Monahan.
On Monday, June 1, the USPP worked with the United States Secret Service to have temporary fencing installed inside Lafayette Park. At approximately 6:33 pm, violent protestors on H Street NW began throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids. The protestors also climbed onto a historic building at the north end of Lafayette Park that was destroyed by arson days prior. Intelligence had revealed calls for violence against the police, and officers found caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
@George-K , yes, the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken.
The WUSA9 news crew found tear gas canisters on site at the time and documented their findings:
@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
@George-K , yes, the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken.
The WUSA9 news crew found tear gas canisters on site at the time and documented their findings:
And so, apparently, is Aqua:
While some agitators threw water bottles at advancing police, one agitator hurled a firework towards officers that fell short and caused panic among retreating protesters.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@89th said in Not a riot:
In other words, to answer your question, an officer feels more at risk by black citizens as they (proportional to their race) are 2.7x more likely to kill a cop.
Blacks have killed more cops because a great many of them live in neighborhoods in which more cops are killed, not because melanin levels make you enjoy killing cops 2.7 times as much.
Also, that's historical data, not a future projection. Those numbers don't mean that blacks are 2.7 times more likely to kill a police officer, they mean that police officers have been killed by blacks 2.7 times more often than whites. Those two aren't the same.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
@89th said in Not a riot:
Those numbers don't mean that blacks are 2.7 times more likely to kill a police officer, they mean that police officers have been killed by blacks 2.7 times more often than whites. Those two aren't the same.
Correct, one is a fact. The other will become a fact if this BLM nonsense continues.
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@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/uspp/6_2_20_statement_from_acting_chief_monahan.htm
United States Park Police acting Chief Gregory Monahan.
On Monday, June 1, the USPP worked with the United States Secret Service to have temporary fencing installed inside Lafayette Park. At approximately 6:33 pm, violent protestors on H Street NW began throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids. The protestors also climbed onto a historic building at the north end of Lafayette Park that was destroyed by arson days prior. Intelligence had revealed calls for violence against the police, and officers found caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
@George-K , yes, the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken.
The WUSA9 news crew found tear gas canisters on site at the time and documented their findings:
@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/uspp/6_2_20_statement_from_acting_chief_monahan.htm
United States Park Police acting Chief Gregory Monahan.
On Monday, June 1, the USPP worked with the United States Secret Service to have temporary fencing installed inside Lafayette Park. At approximately 6:33 pm, violent protestors on H Street NW began throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids. The protestors also climbed onto a historic building at the north end of Lafayette Park that was destroyed by arson days prior. Intelligence had revealed calls for violence against the police, and officers found caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
@George-K , yes, the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken.
The WUSA9 news crew found tear gas canisters on site at the time and documented their findings:
You truly are an idiot.
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@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
@George-K , yes, the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken.
The WUSA9 news crew found tear gas canisters on site at the time and documented their findings:
And so, apparently, is Aqua:
While some agitators threw water bottles at advancing police, one agitator hurled a firework towards officers that fell short and caused panic among retreating protesters.
@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@George-K said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
No fires were set there then, and nothing was thrown at police.
You're saying the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken?
@George-K , yes, the Chief of Police for the Park Service is mistaken.
The WUSA9 news crew found tear gas canisters on site at the time and documented their findings:
And so, apparently, is Aqua:
While some agitators threw water bottles at advancing police, one agitator hurled a firework towards officers that fell short and caused panic among retreating protesters.
Saw the video. Did you?
Firework was thrown after the tear gas and flashbangs started.
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Ax may or may not be an idiot, but there WAS tear gas fired in LaFayette that evening. Like Aqua, I know a few people that were on-site, and not as protestors. They say tear gas was fired, I believe them.
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I posted a video still of the tear gas and we're still debating this. We've approached "I'll see it when I believe it." Protester bad. Whatever.
Please love yourself.
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More police peacefully dispersing a rabid, violent crowd determined to destroy property:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CA-P9oVnkD-/
Please love yourself.
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I posted a video still of the tear gas and we're still debating this. We've approached "I'll see it when I believe it." Protester bad. Whatever.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
I posted a video still of the tear gas and we're still debating this. We've approached "I'll see it when I believe it." Protester bad. Whatever.
You've bought into a media lie. Those were smoke bomb canisters. Not tear gas.
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More police peacefully dispersing a rabid, violent crowd determined to destroy property:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CA-P9oVnkD-/
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
More police peacefully dispersing a rabid, violent crowd determined to destroy property:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CA-P9oVnkD-/
According to those who were there, the "peaceful protesters" began to turn violent, police found various items positioned strategically to be used as weapons when the "peaceful protesters" began heading straight for the items like they (say it ain't so!!) Knew right where they were, and the police had to use smoke bombs and pepper balls to disperse the now violent "peaceful protesters".
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
I posted a video still of the tear gas and we're still debating this. We've approached "I'll see it when I believe it." Protester bad. Whatever.
You've bought into a media lie. Those were smoke bomb canisters. Not tear gas.
@Larry said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
I posted a video still of the tear gas and we're still debating this. We've approached "I'll see it when I believe it." Protester bad. Whatever.
You've bought into a media lie. Those were smoke bomb canisters. Not tear gas.
WUSA 9 isn't exactly Mother Jones, or even WaPo, Larry. They are generally pretty much down the middle. They have physical evidence of this. Aqua and I are hardly on the side of Antifa and BLM, but we both know people that we trust that were on-site and said it happened.
On the other hand, we have the Park Police giving an oddly specific statement about the tear gas.
The Brad
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Meanwhile in Buffalo
Link to video -
Meanwhile in Buffalo
Link to video@Doctor-Phibes said in Not a riot:
Meanwhile in Buffalo
Link to videoThat was one of the Instagram videos Aqua posted. Oddly enough, I don't really have as much of an issue with that one... It looks to me like the Police were doing an advance. They are instructed to walk forward and to not stop, just keep moving and move whatever is in your way. It doesn't look like a hard shove at all. It looks more like the old guy was surprised and stumbled backward and fell. The guy that was closest bends over and obviously wants to help, but his superior (the one talking on the walkie-talkie sends him and the others on while she calls for medical assistance.
Unfortunate, but that is as much on the protestor as the police. Maybe even more.
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They didn't have to do what they did, LD. Minimum necessary force. He was one old man for crying out loud, they could have turned him around to get him to start walking. Judging by his size and age that would have taken about a second to do. Cop wasn't evil but you're going to tell me that was the most ideal way to handle that? (And yeah the guy absolutely shouldn't have tried to hold the police up, but how old is he?)
More generally, police get training in de-escalation, but we give them a pass in the heat of the moment. Citizens receive no such training, but the onus is on them to keep the situation calm in police confrontations. Tell me how that makes any kind of sense.
Please love yourself.
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@Larry said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
I posted a video still of the tear gas and we're still debating this. We've approached "I'll see it when I believe it." Protester bad. Whatever.
You've bought into a media lie. Those were smoke bomb canisters. Not tear gas.
WUSA 9 isn't exactly Mother Jones, or even WaPo, Larry. They are generally pretty much down the middle. They have physical evidence of this. Aqua and I are hardly on the side of Antifa and BLM, but we both know people that we trust that were on-site and said it happened.
On the other hand, we have the Park Police giving an oddly specific statement about the tear gas.
@LuFins-Dad said in Not a riot:
On the other hand, we have the Park Police giving an oddly specific statement about the tear gas.
I still bet you ten bucks they all got last-minute word from a White House official about the President's plans, coordination sucked as there were multiple organizations present, and the clearing out was botched.
Had the White House waited 25 damn minutes, they would have had all the excuse in the world to use any means necessary to clear the crowd.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Not a riot:
On the other hand, we have the Park Police giving an oddly specific statement about the tear gas.
I still bet you ten bucks they all got last-minute word from a White House official about the President's plans, coordination sucked as there were multiple organizations present, and the clearing out was botched.
Had the White House waited 25 damn minutes, they would have had all the excuse in the world to use any means necessary to clear the crowd.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
@LuFins-Dad said in Not a riot:
On the other hand, we have the Park Police giving an oddly specific statement about the tear gas.
I still bet you ten bucks they all got last-minute word from a White House official about the President's plans, coordination sucked as there were multiple organizations present, and the clearing out was botched.
Had the White House waited 25 damn minutes, they would have had all the excuse in the world to use any means necessary to clear the crowd.
I agree 100%.
On another note, I saw that tear gas helps spread Covid, so we can now blame future spread on police for gassing protesters. This is the world we live in.
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They didn't have to do what they did, LD. Minimum necessary force. He was one old man for crying out loud, they could have turned him around to get him to start walking. Judging by his size and age that would have taken about a second to do. Cop wasn't evil but you're going to tell me that was the most ideal way to handle that? (And yeah the guy absolutely shouldn't have tried to hold the police up, but how old is he?)
More generally, police get training in de-escalation, but we give them a pass in the heat of the moment. Citizens receive no such training, but the onus is on them to keep the situation calm in police confrontations. Tell me how that makes any kind of sense.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
They didn't have to do what they did, LD. Minimum necessary force. He was one old man for crying out loud, they could have turned him around to get him to start walking. Judging by his size and age that would have taken about a second to do. Cop wasn't evil but you're going to tell me that was the most ideal way to handle that? (And yeah the guy absolutely shouldn't have tried to hold the police up, but how old is he?)
More generally, police get training in de-escalation, but we give them a pass in the heat of the moment. Citizens receive no such training, but the onus is on them to keep the situation calm in police confrontations. Tell me how that makes any kind of sense.
I'm not saying it was right or proper, I'm just saying that it's not the worst thing we're going to see people do today or this weekend.
As for the other videos, I would love to see longer videos of the leadup to that moment. Don't know what was happening with the convertible? Maybe they tried to run an officer down? Maybe they were being busted in the act of escaping with loot? Who knows.
As for the tear gas in the car, that would be a hell of a shot... What I saw at the end wasn't tear gas, but pepper rounds? Maybe there's a pregnant woman in the car, maybe there isn't. If the officers felt they were under attack at that moment, it becomes irrelevant, I hate to say. We can't judge these events based on a 20 second video.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
@LuFins-Dad said in Not a riot:
On the other hand, we have the Park Police giving an oddly specific statement about the tear gas.
I still bet you ten bucks they all got last-minute word from a White House official about the President's plans, coordination sucked as there were multiple organizations present, and the clearing out was botched.
Had the White House waited 25 damn minutes, they would have had all the excuse in the world to use any means necessary to clear the crowd.
I agree 100%.
On another note, I saw that tear gas helps spread Covid, so we can now blame future spread on police for gassing protesters. This is the world we live in.
@Loki said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
@LuFins-Dad said in Not a riot:
On the other hand, we have the Park Police giving an oddly specific statement about the tear gas.
I still bet you ten bucks they all got last-minute word from a White House official about the President's plans, coordination sucked as there were multiple organizations present, and the clearing out was botched.
Had the White House waited 25 damn minutes, they would have had all the excuse in the world to use any means necessary to clear the crowd.
I agree 100%.
On another note, I saw that tear gas helps spread Covid, so we can now blame future spread on police for gassing protesters. This is the world we live in.
I agree wholeheartedly, too.
