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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Spot the threat to free speech

Spot the threat to free speech

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  • L Offline
    L Offline
    Loki
    wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:44 last edited by
    #24

    We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

    Second the right to free speech as a person is not the right of anonymous entity to spew polarizing garbage to millions of people. I don’t think the Constitution provides protection for that.

    H 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 16:43
    • J Online
      J Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:45 last edited by jon-nyc
      #25

      @Loki
      So you're saying Trump should be banned from Twitter altogether? Oh, never mind. You said anonymous.

      Only non-witches get due process.

      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
      1 Reply Last reply
      • J Online
        J Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:47 last edited by jon-nyc
        #26

        @Loki To be serious I'm dead-dog certain there have been court cases on whether you lose your right to free speech if publishing anonymously and there's no way the courts would have ever allowed that. I think if you reflected on it for a while you wouldn't be for it either.

        Only non-witches get due process.

        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
        L 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 16:45
        • L Offline
          L Offline
          Larry
          wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:48 last edited by
          #27

          Nope. I'm saying that Twitter tried to limit Trumps free speech, and he has a right to strike back. No, he has an obligation to strike back. We all have the same obligation. If you don't fight against attempts to limit freedom of speech, you will lose it.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • L Offline
            L Offline
            Larry
            wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:52 last edited by
            #28

            Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

            J T 2 Replies Last reply 27 May 2020, 15:55
            • X Offline
              X Offline
              xenon
              wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:53 last edited by xenon
              #29

              Right - but there's a more basic issue at play here first.

              Twitter is more akin to a bar.

              The barkeep reigns supreme in the bar and can tell you to GTFO whenever they want. That's not a first amendment issue.

              Do we want government to regulate social media as a first step?

              L 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 15:59
              • L Larry
                27 May 2020, 15:52

                Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                J Online
                J Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:55 last edited by
                #30

                @Larry said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                Well, the courts only get involved when the government tries to limit it. So, if you believe in free speech the courts are your friend.

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                1 Reply Last reply
                • X xenon
                  27 May 2020, 15:53

                  Right - but there's a more basic issue at play here first.

                  Twitter is more akin to a bar.

                  The barkeep reigns supreme in the bar and can tell you to GTFO whenever they want. That's not a first amendment issue.

                  Do we want government to regulate social media as a first step?

                  L Offline
                  L Offline
                  Larry
                  wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:59 last edited by
                  #31

                  @xenon said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                  Right - but there's a more basic issue at play here first.

                  Twitter is more akin to a bar.

                  The barkeep reigns supreme in the bar and can tell you to GTFO whenever they want. That's not a first amendment issue.

                  Do we want government to regulate social media as a first step?

                  The bar analogy doesn't work for me because of the size and reach of Twitter.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • J Online
                    J Online
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:19 last edited by
                    #32

                    For the record I think Twitter was idiotic for doing this, best case it will achieve the opposite of what they hoped. That’s the best case.

                    Only non-witches get due process.

                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                    T 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 17:30
                    • L Offline
                      L Offline
                      Larry
                      wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:25 last edited by
                      #33

                      I agree.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • A Offline
                        A Offline
                        Axtremus
                        wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:37 last edited by
                        #34

                        Oh, if only Trump would boycott Twitter.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • L Offline
                          L Offline
                          Larry
                          wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:40 last edited by
                          #35

                          He would still get reelected, because the democrats have embraced a failed ideology and are running a moron for president.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • L Loki
                            27 May 2020, 15:44

                            We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                            Second the right to free speech as a person is not the right of anonymous entity to spew polarizing garbage to millions of people. I don’t think the Constitution provides protection for that.

                            H Offline
                            H Offline
                            Horace
                            wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:43 last edited by
                            #36

                            @Loki said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                            We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                            And the thing being exploited here is each individual's eagerness to pounce when the other tribe is seen to be crazy or stupid or evil. The best way to immunize ourselves against those trolls is to stop being so eager to do that.

                            Education is extremely important.

                            L M 2 Replies Last reply 27 May 2020, 16:49
                            • J jon-nyc
                              27 May 2020, 15:47

                              @Loki To be serious I'm dead-dog certain there have been court cases on whether you lose your right to free speech if publishing anonymously and there's no way the courts would have ever allowed that. I think if you reflected on it for a while you wouldn't be for it either.

                              L Offline
                              L Offline
                              Loki
                              wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:45 last edited by
                              #37

                              @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                              @Loki To be serious I'm dead-dog certain there have been court cases on whether you lose your right to free speech if publishing anonymously and there's no way the courts would have ever allowed that. I think if you reflected on it for a while you wouldn't be for it either.

                              Well it’s not the anonymous person that I was thinking about in general but does that North Korean operative in Pyongyang have the right to free speech on Twitter and Facebook?

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • H Horace
                                27 May 2020, 16:43

                                @Loki said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                And the thing being exploited here is each individual's eagerness to pounce when the other tribe is seen to be crazy or stupid or evil. The best way to immunize ourselves against those trolls is to stop being so eager to do that.

                                L Offline
                                L Offline
                                Loki
                                wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:49 last edited by
                                #38

                                @Horace said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                @Loki said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                And the thing being exploited here is each individual's eagerness to pounce when the other tribe is seen to be crazy or stupid or evil. The best way to immunize ourselves against those trolls is to stop being so eager to do that.

                                Let’s assume for a second that certain other countries have a vested interest in polarizing our country, which ones are targeting liberals?

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • L Larry
                                  27 May 2020, 15:52

                                  Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                                  T Offline
                                  T Offline
                                  taiwan_girl
                                  wrote on 27 May 2020, 17:28 last edited by
                                  #39

                                  @Larry said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                  Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                                  But there are limits to free speech. I will admit that I am not a constitution expert, but I do know that "free speech" is not 100% free.

                                  I cannot yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater.
                                  If untrue, I cannot posting everywhere that my neighbor is a sex molestor.

                                  (I guess I could, but there would be consequences.)

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • J jon-nyc
                                    27 May 2020, 16:19

                                    For the record I think Twitter was idiotic for doing this, best case it will achieve the opposite of what they hoped. That’s the best case.

                                    T Offline
                                    T Offline
                                    taiwan_girl
                                    wrote on 27 May 2020, 17:30 last edited by
                                    #40

                                    @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                    For the record I think Twitter was idiotic for doing this, best case it will achieve the opposite of what they hoped. That’s the best case.

                                    True, but this situation should never have happened. There are so so so many things going on in the world that President Trump should be focusing on.

                                    Spending his time and energy posting tweets on the death of someone 19 years ago that (as far as I know) has been shown to be a natural death, seems to be a gigantic waste of time, energy, and he should be spending his time more productively.

                                    L 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 18:06
                                    • H Horace
                                      27 May 2020, 16:43

                                      @Loki said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                      We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                      And the thing being exploited here is each individual's eagerness to pounce when the other tribe is seen to be crazy or stupid or evil. The best way to immunize ourselves against those trolls is to stop being so eager to do that.

                                      M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      Mik
                                      wrote on 27 May 2020, 17:37 last edited by
                                      #41

                                      @Horace said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                      @Loki said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                      We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                      And the thing being exploited here is each individual's eagerness to pounce when the other tribe is seen to be crazy or stupid or evil. The best way to immunize ourselves against those trolls is to stop being so eager to do that.

                                      There it is, right there. It only works if we let it and accept the characterization of the other side as devils.

                                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • T taiwan_girl
                                        27 May 2020, 17:30

                                        @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                        For the record I think Twitter was idiotic for doing this, best case it will achieve the opposite of what they hoped. That’s the best case.

                                        True, but this situation should never have happened. There are so so so many things going on in the world that President Trump should be focusing on.

                                        Spending his time and energy posting tweets on the death of someone 19 years ago that (as far as I know) has been shown to be a natural death, seems to be a gigantic waste of time, energy, and he should be spending his time more productively.

                                        L Offline
                                        L Offline
                                        Larry
                                        wrote on 27 May 2020, 18:06 last edited by
                                        #42

                                        @taiwan_girl said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                        @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                        For the record I think Twitter was idiotic for doing this, best case it will achieve the opposite of what they hoped. That’s the best case.

                                        True, but this situation should never have happened. There are so so so many things going on in the world that President Trump should be focusing on.

                                        Spending his time and energy posting tweets on the death of someone 19 years ago that (as far as I know) has been shown to be a natural death, seems to be a gigantic waste of time, energy, and he should be spending his time more productively.

                                        Back when he tweeted that he was being spied on, his detractors were busy saying what you just said. When it was proven to be true that he was being spied on and he had been correct all along, crickets. It's been the same every time - Trump tweets something, his detractors jump on him over it, then later on the reason he did it becomes clear and his detractors move on to some other reason he's no good.

                                        "Spend his time more productively"....... lol you must not know about all the things he's accomplished..

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • X xenon
                                          27 May 2020, 14:36

                                          So much intellectual scaffolding has to be built around this man’s statements.

                                          KlausK Offline
                                          KlausK Offline
                                          Klaus
                                          wrote on 27 May 2020, 18:23 last edited by Klaus
                                          #43

                                          @xenon said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                          So much intellectual scaffolding has to be built around this man’s statements.

                                          Any guesses what those "big actions" are? Is that just an empty threat? Would could he actually do? I mean, he is the POTUS after all, so presumably there's something he could do.

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