The Kyle Rittenhouse trial in Kenosha
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@george-k I agree with what you say. No opinion (at this point) on self defense/murder, etc
My point was that if he were black, I do not believe that he could have walked past the police carrying a gun, with people telling the police he had shot people, and then he just continued on and returned to his hometown.
The police did not stop him, did not detain him, etc.
Just a random perspective.
@taiwan_girl said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence:
I do not believe that he could have walked past the police carrying a gun, with people telling the police he had shot people, and then he just continued on and returned to his hometown.
Did that happen?
Did he walk past police?
I'm more than happy to be proven wrong, but I'm not aware of that narrative.
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".........
Rittenhouse sat up and pointed his gun at Grosskreutz, who took a step back but then moved toward Rittenhouse. He fired a shot that hit Grosskreutz in the arm.Afterward, video footage showed Rittenhouse approaching police vehicles with his hands raised. Several vehicles passed him after he waved toward the first. A voice can be heard yelling, "Hey, he just shot them! Hey, dude right here just shot them!" Another voice on a police loudspeaker is heard saying, "Someone injured, straight ahead."
Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis defended his department’s actions in an Aug. 28, 2020 news conference, saying the police in the vehicles didn’t see Rittenhouse as a threat and wouldn’t have heard yelling from the crowd over other noise. He said officers were more focused on the injuries and what happened down the street.
So, multiple sources — including the Kenosha Police Department — have verified that Rittenhouse walked by police after the shootings. "
He did return to his hometown and was arrested the next morning there.
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".........
Rittenhouse sat up and pointed his gun at Grosskreutz, who took a step back but then moved toward Rittenhouse. He fired a shot that hit Grosskreutz in the arm.Afterward, video footage showed Rittenhouse approaching police vehicles with his hands raised. Several vehicles passed him after he waved toward the first. A voice can be heard yelling, "Hey, he just shot them! Hey, dude right here just shot them!" Another voice on a police loudspeaker is heard saying, "Someone injured, straight ahead."
Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis defended his department’s actions in an Aug. 28, 2020 news conference, saying the police in the vehicles didn’t see Rittenhouse as a threat and wouldn’t have heard yelling from the crowd over other noise. He said officers were more focused on the injuries and what happened down the street.
So, multiple sources — including the Kenosha Police Department — have verified that Rittenhouse walked by police after the shootings. "
He did return to his hometown and was arrested the next morning there.
@taiwan_girl said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence:
".........
Rittenhouse sat up and pointed his gun at Grosskreutz, who took a step back but then moved toward Rittenhouse. He fired a shot that hit Grosskreutz in the arm.Afterward, video footage showed Rittenhouse approaching police vehicles with his hands raised. Several vehicles passed him after he waved toward the first. A voice can be heard yelling, "Hey, he just shot them! Hey, dude right here just shot them!" Another voice on a police loudspeaker is heard saying, "Someone injured, straight ahead."
Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis defended his department’s actions in an Aug. 28, 2020 news conference, saying the police in the vehicles didn’t see Rittenhouse as a threat and wouldn’t have heard yelling from the crowd over other noise. He said officers were more focused on the injuries and what happened down the street.
So, multiple sources — including the Kenosha Police Department — have verified that Rittenhouse walked by police after the shootings. "
He did return to his hometown and was arrested the next morning there.
There were several folks on the street that night toting weapons . Why should the cops single him out?
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@taiwan_girl said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence:
".........
Rittenhouse sat up and pointed his gun at Grosskreutz, who took a step back but then moved toward Rittenhouse. He fired a shot that hit Grosskreutz in the arm.Afterward, video footage showed Rittenhouse approaching police vehicles with his hands raised. Several vehicles passed him after he waved toward the first. A voice can be heard yelling, "Hey, he just shot them! Hey, dude right here just shot them!" Another voice on a police loudspeaker is heard saying, "Someone injured, straight ahead."
Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis defended his department’s actions in an Aug. 28, 2020 news conference, saying the police in the vehicles didn’t see Rittenhouse as a threat and wouldn’t have heard yelling from the crowd over other noise. He said officers were more focused on the injuries and what happened down the street.
So, multiple sources — including the Kenosha Police Department — have verified that Rittenhouse walked by police after the shootings. "
He did return to his hometown and was arrested the next morning there.
There were several folks on the street that night toting weapons . Why should the cops single him out?
@jolly I may be completely wrong, but IMO, if he were a 6' 5" tall and 250 pound black guy with multiple tattoos and dreadlocks, and he was walking down the street with a tight T-shirt carrying a gun and people were pointing at him saying he had just shot some guys, I think the police would have reacted differently to him.
(Note: I do not believe the "systematic" racism stuff and I dont think people are all racist. My original comment was just kind of a "what if...." )
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G George K referenced this topic on
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@jolly said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence:
he should walk.
Couple of possible charges that might stick (I actually don't know if he was charged with these):
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He was 17 at the time - I think it's illegal to own a long rifle at that age.
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He transported it across state lines.
Rittenhouse stands accused of shooting the protesters. Since his lawyer has said that Rittenhouse obtained the assault-style rifle from a friend in Wisconsin (meaning that he didn’t transport it with him from Illinois), we’re going to focus on the second half of the claim — that it was "perfectly legal" for the teenager to carry a firearm in Kenosha.
Is that true? State laws suggest not.
The Wisconsin Department of Justice honors concealed carry permits issued in Illinois. But Rittenhouse did not have a permit to begin with, and he was not legally old enough to carry a firearm in Wisconsin.
In Illinois, concealed carry applicants must be at least 21 years old. Since Rittenhouse is 17, he would not qualify for a permit. In Wisconsin, it is legal for adults to carry firearms in public without a license if the gun is visible. However, to open carry, you must be at least 18 years old.
Wisconsin law stipulates that "any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor." On Aug. 27, prosecutors charged Rittenhouse with a misdemeanor count of possession of a dangerous weapon under the age of 18, according to court records.
John Monroe, an attorney who specializes in gun rights, told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that there’s an exception for rifles and shotguns, which is aimed at letting children ages 16 and 17 hunt, that could apply. But Rittenhouse wasn’t in Kenosha to hunt.
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The exception still applies. Transporting across state lines is a problem. Justice could charge him under Federal law, but if they do this after an acquittal, it would certainly have political fallout.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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https://dailycaller.com/2021/11/09/wisconsin-kyle-rittenhouse-witness-trial-prosecutor-statement/
A key witness for the prosecution in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial testified Tuesday that he was asked to change his statement by the prosecution team.
Nathan DeBruin was taking photographs of the events the night that Rittenhouse killed two protestors and injured another, according to WISN.
Prosecutor Thomas Binger asked DeBruin to identify a person in a picture, according to DeBruin’s testimony.
When DeBruin didn’t know who the person was, Binger allegedly identified the person as Joshua Zaminsky.
Binger then set the phone face down before showing the photo again to DeBruin. He then asked a second time to identify the person in the picture.
“I just felt, I didn’t want to change my statement,” DeBruin told the defense attorney.
After being asked by Binger to change his statement, DeBruin told the defense team he hired an attorney.
Prosecutor James Kraus then began cross-examining the witness about his statement to police on the night of the shooting.
“We asked if you knew anything beyond that statement,” Kraus asked.
“Correct,” DeBruin responded.
“We didn’t ask you to change it?” the prosecutor then asked.
“Yes, yes you did,” DeBruin told the prosecutor.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@taiwan_girl said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence:
I hesitate to bring "race" to this forum thread, but there was a recent article I saw.
From what I understand, after all of the shooting incidents, he walked past police carrying a rifle (or machine) gun, with people shouting that he had just shot people. Even with all that, he basically left the scene and went home.
No, he did not have a "machine" gun. He had a semi-automatic rifle. That's an important distinction. Fully automatic weapons (ie "machine guns") are almost impossible to get in the United States.
He did not go home, he told Illinois police and said that he had shot someone.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kenosha-protesters-killed-teen-kyle-rittenhouse-police-report/
A visibly upset 17-year-old accused of fatally shooting two demonstrators in Wisconsin told officers at his local police station in Illinois where to find an assault rifle he said he had used just two hours earlier to shoot several people, according to police records.
Kyle Rittenhouse cycled through a range of emotions, crying and vomiting several times, as he described to police what happened late on August 25 after he traveled to Kenosha, ostensibly to protect businesses from protesters following the police shooting of Jacob Blake, a 29-year-old Black man, Antioch Police Department records show.
"I shot two White kids," Rittenhouse said, adding that he had "ended a man's life."
And, from what the video says, he fired in self defense, after someone shot at him.
He shot (and killed) two white guys. Why bring race into it at all?
Don't get me wrong. This kid was an idiot, and what he did, bringing a weapon to Kenosha, which was probably illegal, is wrong.
But, that's not what the prosecution alleges. They're accusing him of murder.
First degree murder.
And the video shows something very different.
Why did it take over a year for this to be seen?
@george-k said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence - The Kyle Rittenhouse trial in Kenosha:
Why did it take over a year for this to be seen?
Isn’t he being tried by the state, not the Feds? Does the FBI have some responsibility to monitor all state prosecutions and provide evidence for one side or the other if they have it?
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@george-k said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence - The Kyle Rittenhouse trial in Kenosha:
Why did it take over a year for this to be seen?
Isn’t he being tried by the state, not the Feds? Does the FBI have some responsibility to monitor all state prosecutions and provide evidence for one side or the other if they have it?
@jon-nyc said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence - The Kyle Rittenhouse trial in Kenosha:
@george-k said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence - The Kyle Rittenhouse trial in Kenosha:
Why did it take over a year for this to be seen?
Isn’t he being tried by the state, not the Feds? Does the FBI have some responsibility to monitor all state prosecutions and provide evidence for one side or the other if they have it?
Good questions.
First of all, there is video that was provided to the prosecution. I don't know the circumstances of that transfer of evidence. Once that happens, however, the defense has the right to see it.
Secondly, why was the FBI flying drones (and, apparently, an airplane) at the scene to begin with? Is this SOP? Did they do this in Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis?
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@jolly said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence:
Kid's a dumbass, but he should walk. It's clearly self-defense.
Yes on all three counts
@jon-nyc said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence - The Kyle Rittenhouse trial in Kenosha:
@jolly said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence:
Kid's a dumbass, but he should walk. It's clearly self-defense.
Yes on all three counts
You and @Jolly forgot to mention that he was pretty damn solid, too. Debate all you want about whether he should have been there, but when the shit went down? Solid. I mean, there should be recruiters from the SEALS and Rangers waiting to talk to this kid in hallway.
The Brad
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@george-k I agree with what you say. No opinion (at this point) on self defense/murder, etc
My point was that if he were black, I do not believe that he could have walked past the police carrying a gun, with people telling the police he had shot people, and then he just continued on and returned to his hometown.
The police did not stop him, did not detain him, etc.
Just a random perspective.
@taiwan_girl said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence - The Kyle Rittenhouse trial in Kenosha:
@george-k I agree with what you say. No opinion (at this point) on self defense/murder, etc
My point was that if he were black, I do not believe that he could have walked past the police carrying a gun, with people telling the police he had shot people, and then he just continued on and returned to his hometown.
The police did not stop him, did not detain him, etc.
Just a random perspective.
So what? You believe? I wonder if they would have stopped a unicorn with a gun? Oh, wait..a unicorn can't carry a weapon. That has as much relevance to this situation.
“I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill
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@jon-nyc said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence - The Kyle Rittenhouse trial in Kenosha:
@jolly said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence:
Kid's a dumbass, but he should walk. It's clearly self-defense.
Yes on all three counts
You and @Jolly forgot to mention that he was pretty damn solid, too. Debate all you want about whether he should have been there, but when the shit went down? Solid. I mean, there should be recruiters from the SEALS and Rangers waiting to talk to this kid in hallway.
@lufins-dad said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence - The Kyle Rittenhouse trial in Kenosha:
@jon-nyc said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence - The Kyle Rittenhouse trial in Kenosha:
@jolly said in The FBI withheld exculpatory evidence:
Kid's a dumbass, but he should walk. It's clearly self-defense.
Yes on all three counts
You and @Jolly forgot to mention that he was pretty damn solid, too. Debate all you want about whether he should have been there, but when the shit went down? Solid. I mean, there should be recruiters from the SEALS and Rangers waiting to talk to this kid in hallway.
Agreed, I found a nice summary video of what happened (about 3 minutes long) and was impressed he came out of that alive. I wish I could find it again, if I do I'll post it here. It makes the order of events pretty clear and removes bias (as much as one allows).
