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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The coming hospital crisis

The coming hospital crisis

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  • J Online
    J Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on 9 May 2020, 02:52 last edited by
    #15

    A couple of other Sweden maps

    1CC3105B-B3F0-41EE-9316-91AC194DA035.jpeg 5883479A-87C7-48B3-936F-45D8E4DE35EC.jpeg

    Of course they look better when you compare them to France, Italy, Spain, Iran.

    They’ll end up, after a lot of drama, with the same formula they use every time they have a trifecta: take away health care and food assistance from low income families and use the money to fund tax cuts for their donors.

    8 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 03:05
    • R Offline
      R Offline
      Rainman
      wrote on 9 May 2020, 02:53 last edited by
      #16

      So if hospitals are going broke, health insurance companies are booming, right?

      J 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 09:25
      • J jon-nyc
        9 May 2020, 02:49

        Usually the conversation is about policy. I think that Covid Doves in general have yet to concede the point that policy isn’t the problem, the fucking virus is.

        H Offline
        H Offline
        Horace
        wrote on 9 May 2020, 02:57 last edited by
        #17

        It's not clear to me how policy relates to hospitals doing no business. I assume hospitals are considered essential and not covered by the lock down policies. Heck, even the place I work for isn't covered and we're hardly front line health care workers. So why are hospitals all but shut down these days?

        Education is extremely important.

        J 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 09:28
        • J jon-nyc
          9 May 2020, 02:52

          A couple of other Sweden maps

          1CC3105B-B3F0-41EE-9316-91AC194DA035.jpeg 5883479A-87C7-48B3-936F-45D8E4DE35EC.jpeg

          Of course they look better when you compare them to France, Italy, Spain, Iran.

          8 Online
          8 Online
          89th
          wrote on 9 May 2020, 03:05 last edited by
          #18

          @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:
          5883479A-87C7-48B3-936F-45D8E4DE35EC.jpeg

          Holy shit. This is a pretty clear apples to Swedish apples map, no?

          1 Reply Last reply
          • J Online
            J Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote on 9 May 2020, 03:19 last edited by
            #19

            It’s clear but if you put Sweden next to UK, Spain, Italy, France it looks fine.

            Seems like density, culture, climate, etc would suggest the Scandinavian comparison is the apt one but maybe there’s a good reason that isn’t the case.

            They’ll end up, after a lot of drama, with the same formula they use every time they have a trifecta: take away health care and food assistance from low income families and use the money to fund tax cuts for their donors.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • K Online
              K Online
              Klaus
              wrote on 9 May 2020, 09:04 last edited by
              #20

              Ms. Klaus was recently notified that her salary will be cut by 25% because the hospital lost so much money.

              Next time hospitals here will be asked to cancel everything and prepare for a pandemic they’ll show the politicians their middle finger.

              J 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 09:26
              • R Rainman
                9 May 2020, 02:53

                So if hospitals are going broke, health insurance companies are booming, right?

                J Online
                J Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on 9 May 2020, 09:25 last edited by jon-nyc 5 Sept 2020, 14:05
                #21

                @Rainman said in The coming hospital crisis:

                So if hospitals are going broke, health insurance companies are booming, right?

                The biggest part of heath insurance is simply claims management for ‘self-insured’ corporations. In other words, when IBM contracts (say) United Heathcare to provide health insurance to its employees, UHC administers claims but bills the underlying healthcare directly directly to IBM, along with their own administration fees.

                So they might even be losing money, depending on how their contracts work.

                It’s different in the individual and small group market, those act more like traditional insurance. But they are also dealing with fewer people able to pay claims so who knows how that’s netting out for them.

                They’ll end up, after a lot of drama, with the same formula they use every time they have a trifecta: take away health care and food assistance from low income families and use the money to fund tax cuts for their donors.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • K Klaus
                  9 May 2020, 09:04

                  Ms. Klaus was recently notified that her salary will be cut by 25% because the hospital lost so much money.

                  Next time hospitals here will be asked to cancel everything and prepare for a pandemic they’ll show the politicians their middle finger.

                  J Online
                  J Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on 9 May 2020, 09:26 last edited by
                  #22

                  @Klaus

                  Understandable, but only implementable if they don’t mind proceeding as normal but with no PPE.

                  They’ll end up, after a lot of drama, with the same formula they use every time they have a trifecta: take away health care and food assistance from low income families and use the money to fund tax cuts for their donors.

                  J 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 09:42
                  • H Horace
                    9 May 2020, 02:57

                    It's not clear to me how policy relates to hospitals doing no business. I assume hospitals are considered essential and not covered by the lock down policies. Heck, even the place I work for isn't covered and we're hardly front line health care workers. So why are hospitals all but shut down these days?

                    J Online
                    J Online
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on 9 May 2020, 09:28 last edited by jon-nyc 5 Sept 2020, 09:32
                    #23

                    @Horace said in The coming hospital crisis:

                    It's not clear to me how policy relates to hospitals doing no business. I assume hospitals are considered essential and not covered by the lock down policies. Heck, even the place I work for isn't covered and we're hardly front line health care workers. So why are hospitals all but shut down these days?

                    They’re not shut down, they’re restricted in which services they can provide. The ‘no elective procedures’ is policy based and I believe is primarily due to a shortage of PPE.

                    But surely, like everything else, policy is only part of the story. Most people didn’t need to be told in April that bringing grandma to a busy urban hospital for cataracts wasn’t a good idea.

                    They’ll end up, after a lot of drama, with the same formula they use every time they have a trifecta: take away health care and food assistance from low income families and use the money to fund tax cuts for their donors.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • J jon-nyc
                      9 May 2020, 09:26

                      @Klaus

                      Understandable, but only implementable if they don’t mind proceeding as normal but with no PPE.

                      J Online
                      J Online
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on 9 May 2020, 09:42 last edited by
                      #24

                      @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                      @Klaus

                      Understandable, but only implementable if they don’t mind proceeding as normal but with no PPE.

                      But maybe next time countries will have a strategic reserve of PPE and won’t have to. One would hope, right?

                      They’ll end up, after a lot of drama, with the same formula they use every time they have a trifecta: take away health care and food assistance from low income families and use the money to fund tax cuts for their donors.

                      M 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 15:48
                      • J jon-nyc
                        9 May 2020, 02:49

                        Usually the conversation is about policy. I think that Covid Doves in general have yet to concede the point that policy isn’t the problem, the fucking virus is.

                        H Offline
                        H Offline
                        Horace
                        wrote on 9 May 2020, 15:20 last edited by Horace 5 Sept 2020, 15:20
                        #25

                        @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                        Usually the conversation is about policy. I think that Covid Doves in general have yet to concede the point that policy isn’t the problem, the fucking virus is.

                        I'm happy to not concede your notion that regardless of what our social response is, the effect of the response is the effect of the virus. I really don't think that's a reasonable notion.

                        Education is extremely important.

                        J 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 17:21
                        • L Offline
                          L Offline
                          Loki
                          wrote on 9 May 2020, 15:33 last edited by
                          #26

                          Elective surgery is generally not “optional”. Over time it is no longer elective. Ergo the demand destruction is not as bad and in fact the cases entering will be more complicated and more costly- I.e. more billable services. In the meantime some people will die before they see a doc or a hospital for sure.

                          Yeah, things are really bad but not nearly as bad for others. They will be hit much harder as we stay all stay home.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • J jon-nyc
                            9 May 2020, 09:42

                            @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                            @Klaus

                            Understandable, but only implementable if they don’t mind proceeding as normal but with no PPE.

                            But maybe next time countries will have a strategic reserve of PPE and won’t have to. One would hope, right?

                            M Away
                            M Away
                            Mik
                            wrote on 9 May 2020, 15:48 last edited by
                            #27

                            @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                            @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                            @Klaus

                            Understandable, but only implementable if they don’t mind proceeding as normal but with no PPE.

                            But maybe next time countries will have a strategic reserve of PPE and won’t have to. One would hope, right?

                            One would hope. But I also think states need to help themselves here.

                            "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • 8 Online
                              8 Online
                              89th
                              wrote on 9 May 2020, 17:15 last edited by
                              #28

                              As with most of my posts, this adds no value...but this thread has reminded me of how little I understand the financial world of hospitals and health care. I’m used to traditional business income statements and balance sheets.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • H Horace
                                9 May 2020, 15:20

                                @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                Usually the conversation is about policy. I think that Covid Doves in general have yet to concede the point that policy isn’t the problem, the fucking virus is.

                                I'm happy to not concede your notion that regardless of what our social response is, the effect of the response is the effect of the virus. I really don't think that's a reasonable notion.

                                J Online
                                J Online
                                jon-nyc
                                wrote on 9 May 2020, 17:21 last edited by
                                #29

                                @Horace said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                Usually the conversation is about policy. I think that Covid Doves in general have yet to concede the point that policy isn’t the problem, the fucking virus is.

                                I'm happy to not concede your notion that regardless of what our social response is, the effect of the response is the effect of the virus. I really don't think that's a reasonable notion.

                                It’s obviously not true across every conceivable societal response, but it’s approximately true across actually existing responses, or at least true enough to render many of the complaints about ‘lockdown’ either moot or misdirected.

                                They’ll end up, after a lot of drama, with the same formula they use every time they have a trifecta: take away health care and food assistance from low income families and use the money to fund tax cuts for their donors.

                                H 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 18:34
                                • C Offline
                                  C Offline
                                  Copper
                                  wrote on 9 May 2020, 17:57 last edited by
                                  #30

                                  We have had pandemics before without the massive overreaction.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • J jon-nyc
                                    9 May 2020, 17:21

                                    @Horace said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                    @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                    Usually the conversation is about policy. I think that Covid Doves in general have yet to concede the point that policy isn’t the problem, the fucking virus is.

                                    I'm happy to not concede your notion that regardless of what our social response is, the effect of the response is the effect of the virus. I really don't think that's a reasonable notion.

                                    It’s obviously not true across every conceivable societal response, but it’s approximately true across actually existing responses, or at least true enough to render many of the complaints about ‘lockdown’ either moot or misdirected.

                                    H Offline
                                    H Offline
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on 9 May 2020, 18:34 last edited by
                                    #31

                                    @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                    @Horace said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                    @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                    Usually the conversation is about policy. I think that Covid Doves in general have yet to concede the point that policy isn’t the problem, the fucking virus is.

                                    I'm happy to not concede your notion that regardless of what our social response is, the effect of the response is the effect of the virus. I really don't think that's a reasonable notion.

                                    It’s obviously not true across every conceivable societal response, but it’s approximately true across actually existing responses, or at least true enough to render many of the complaints about ‘lockdown’ either moot or misdirected.

                                    "Masks and protective measures up to but not including always staying home" was never tried.

                                    Education is extremely important.

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