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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The coming hospital crisis

The coming hospital crisis

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  • J Online
    J Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on 9 May 2020, 02:33 last edited by
    #8

    EA6FF77B-EB41-4619-8435-F825370A7BF9.jpeg

    "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
    -Cormac McCarthy

    1 Reply Last reply
    • J Online
      J Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote on 9 May 2020, 02:34 last edited by jon-nyc 5 Sept 2020, 02:35
      #9

      79FBAD7E-4A2A-4426-B081-AD43BDB5C043.jpeg

      "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
      -Cormac McCarthy

      1 Reply Last reply
      • J Online
        J Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on 9 May 2020, 02:36 last edited by jon-nyc 5 Sept 2020, 02:36
        #10

        The economic devastation doesn’t seem to be a policy choice. At least mostly not.

        "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
        -Cormac McCarthy

        1 Reply Last reply
        • H Offline
          H Offline
          Horace
          wrote on 9 May 2020, 02:46 last edited by
          #11

          Yeah I don't think it matters to the economy whether people aren't going outside because of force or choice. Neither does it matter much to the discussion about whether it's good that everybody stays inside.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • H Offline
            H Offline
            Horace
            wrote on 9 May 2020, 02:49 last edited by
            #12
            This post is deleted!
            1 Reply Last reply
            • J Online
              J Online
              jon-nyc
              wrote on 9 May 2020, 02:49 last edited by jon-nyc 5 Sept 2020, 02:51
              #13

              Usually the conversation is about policy. I think that Covid Doves in general have yet to concede the point that policy isn’t the problem, the fucking virus is.

              "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
              -Cormac McCarthy

              H 2 Replies Last reply 9 May 2020, 02:57
              • H Offline
                H Offline
                Horace
                wrote on 9 May 2020, 02:51 last edited by
                #14

                Social norms are no less important or effective than policies, and just as amenable to change due to discussion.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • J Online
                  J Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on 9 May 2020, 02:52 last edited by
                  #15

                  A couple of other Sweden maps

                  1CC3105B-B3F0-41EE-9316-91AC194DA035.jpeg 5883479A-87C7-48B3-936F-45D8E4DE35EC.jpeg

                  Of course they look better when you compare them to France, Italy, Spain, Iran.

                  "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                  -Cormac McCarthy

                  8 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 03:05
                  • R Offline
                    R Offline
                    Rainman
                    wrote on 9 May 2020, 02:53 last edited by
                    #16

                    So if hospitals are going broke, health insurance companies are booming, right?

                    J 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 09:25
                    • J jon-nyc
                      9 May 2020, 02:49

                      Usually the conversation is about policy. I think that Covid Doves in general have yet to concede the point that policy isn’t the problem, the fucking virus is.

                      H Offline
                      H Offline
                      Horace
                      wrote on 9 May 2020, 02:57 last edited by
                      #17

                      It's not clear to me how policy relates to hospitals doing no business. I assume hospitals are considered essential and not covered by the lock down policies. Heck, even the place I work for isn't covered and we're hardly front line health care workers. So why are hospitals all but shut down these days?

                      J 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 09:28
                      • J jon-nyc
                        9 May 2020, 02:52

                        A couple of other Sweden maps

                        1CC3105B-B3F0-41EE-9316-91AC194DA035.jpeg 5883479A-87C7-48B3-936F-45D8E4DE35EC.jpeg

                        Of course they look better when you compare them to France, Italy, Spain, Iran.

                        8 Offline
                        8 Offline
                        89th
                        wrote on 9 May 2020, 03:05 last edited by
                        #18

                        @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:
                        5883479A-87C7-48B3-936F-45D8E4DE35EC.jpeg

                        Holy shit. This is a pretty clear apples to Swedish apples map, no?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • J Online
                          J Online
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on 9 May 2020, 03:19 last edited by
                          #19

                          It’s clear but if you put Sweden next to UK, Spain, Italy, France it looks fine.

                          Seems like density, culture, climate, etc would suggest the Scandinavian comparison is the apt one but maybe there’s a good reason that isn’t the case.

                          "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                          -Cormac McCarthy

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • K Online
                            K Online
                            Klaus
                            wrote on 9 May 2020, 09:04 last edited by
                            #20

                            Ms. Klaus was recently notified that her salary will be cut by 25% because the hospital lost so much money.

                            Next time hospitals here will be asked to cancel everything and prepare for a pandemic they’ll show the politicians their middle finger.

                            J 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 09:26
                            • R Rainman
                              9 May 2020, 02:53

                              So if hospitals are going broke, health insurance companies are booming, right?

                              J Online
                              J Online
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on 9 May 2020, 09:25 last edited by jon-nyc 5 Sept 2020, 14:05
                              #21

                              @Rainman said in The coming hospital crisis:

                              So if hospitals are going broke, health insurance companies are booming, right?

                              The biggest part of heath insurance is simply claims management for ‘self-insured’ corporations. In other words, when IBM contracts (say) United Heathcare to provide health insurance to its employees, UHC administers claims but bills the underlying healthcare directly directly to IBM, along with their own administration fees.

                              So they might even be losing money, depending on how their contracts work.

                              It’s different in the individual and small group market, those act more like traditional insurance. But they are also dealing with fewer people able to pay claims so who knows how that’s netting out for them.

                              "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                              -Cormac McCarthy

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • K Klaus
                                9 May 2020, 09:04

                                Ms. Klaus was recently notified that her salary will be cut by 25% because the hospital lost so much money.

                                Next time hospitals here will be asked to cancel everything and prepare for a pandemic they’ll show the politicians their middle finger.

                                J Online
                                J Online
                                jon-nyc
                                wrote on 9 May 2020, 09:26 last edited by
                                #22

                                @Klaus

                                Understandable, but only implementable if they don’t mind proceeding as normal but with no PPE.

                                "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                                -Cormac McCarthy

                                J 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 09:42
                                • H Horace
                                  9 May 2020, 02:57

                                  It's not clear to me how policy relates to hospitals doing no business. I assume hospitals are considered essential and not covered by the lock down policies. Heck, even the place I work for isn't covered and we're hardly front line health care workers. So why are hospitals all but shut down these days?

                                  J Online
                                  J Online
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on 9 May 2020, 09:28 last edited by jon-nyc 5 Sept 2020, 09:32
                                  #23

                                  @Horace said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                  It's not clear to me how policy relates to hospitals doing no business. I assume hospitals are considered essential and not covered by the lock down policies. Heck, even the place I work for isn't covered and we're hardly front line health care workers. So why are hospitals all but shut down these days?

                                  They’re not shut down, they’re restricted in which services they can provide. The ‘no elective procedures’ is policy based and I believe is primarily due to a shortage of PPE.

                                  But surely, like everything else, policy is only part of the story. Most people didn’t need to be told in April that bringing grandma to a busy urban hospital for cataracts wasn’t a good idea.

                                  "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                                  -Cormac McCarthy

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • J jon-nyc
                                    9 May 2020, 09:26

                                    @Klaus

                                    Understandable, but only implementable if they don’t mind proceeding as normal but with no PPE.

                                    J Online
                                    J Online
                                    jon-nyc
                                    wrote on 9 May 2020, 09:42 last edited by
                                    #24

                                    @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                    @Klaus

                                    Understandable, but only implementable if they don’t mind proceeding as normal but with no PPE.

                                    But maybe next time countries will have a strategic reserve of PPE and won’t have to. One would hope, right?

                                    "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                                    -Cormac McCarthy

                                    M 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 15:48
                                    • J jon-nyc
                                      9 May 2020, 02:49

                                      Usually the conversation is about policy. I think that Covid Doves in general have yet to concede the point that policy isn’t the problem, the fucking virus is.

                                      H Offline
                                      H Offline
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on 9 May 2020, 15:20 last edited by Horace 5 Sept 2020, 15:20
                                      #25

                                      @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                      Usually the conversation is about policy. I think that Covid Doves in general have yet to concede the point that policy isn’t the problem, the fucking virus is.

                                      I'm happy to not concede your notion that regardless of what our social response is, the effect of the response is the effect of the virus. I really don't think that's a reasonable notion.

                                      J 1 Reply Last reply 9 May 2020, 17:21
                                      • L Offline
                                        L Offline
                                        Loki
                                        wrote on 9 May 2020, 15:33 last edited by
                                        #26

                                        Elective surgery is generally not “optional”. Over time it is no longer elective. Ergo the demand destruction is not as bad and in fact the cases entering will be more complicated and more costly- I.e. more billable services. In the meantime some people will die before they see a doc or a hospital for sure.

                                        Yeah, things are really bad but not nearly as bad for others. They will be hit much harder as we stay all stay home.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • J jon-nyc
                                          9 May 2020, 09:42

                                          @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                          @Klaus

                                          Understandable, but only implementable if they don’t mind proceeding as normal but with no PPE.

                                          But maybe next time countries will have a strategic reserve of PPE and won’t have to. One would hope, right?

                                          M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          Mik
                                          wrote on 9 May 2020, 15:48 last edited by
                                          #27

                                          @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                          @jon-nyc said in The coming hospital crisis:

                                          @Klaus

                                          Understandable, but only implementable if they don’t mind proceeding as normal but with no PPE.

                                          But maybe next time countries will have a strategic reserve of PPE and won’t have to. One would hope, right?

                                          One would hope. But I also think states need to help themselves here.

                                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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