By the mile

[Copper]

After the Doofusses left there was nobody in the Capitol who could do arithmetic.

[Mik]

Are electric cars lighter than gas cars? If so they would cause less road wear.

My problem with this is it creates yet another thing to track for taxes and accompanying bureaucracy for it. Otherwise cheating will be rampant.

[George K]

@mik said in By the mile:

Are electric cars lighter than gas cars? If so they would cause less road wear.

This is one of my pet peeves when it comes to government subsidies of "public" transportation. As you know, I'm a yuge fan of rail travel. Not only for the fun of it, but also because it provides a service to areas that are undeserved, or unserved by alternate means: Havre, Montana? Yazoo City, Mississippi?

Nope.

So the question for me has always been how much, per passenger-mile, do we subsidize roads? That includes not only roads, but bridges, policing, etc.

For that matter, how much does the government, per passenger-mile, subsidize air travel? What is the cost of maintaining airports such as O'Hare? What about the cost of personnel to staff it? TSA? Our taxes pay for all that stuff. What's the price?

Sorry.

Pissed-off railfan hat off.

[Axtremus]

1. The environmental issue can be solved independently of highway funding (e.g., carbon tax).

2. Highway tax by the mile is not necessarily bad. If you’re the cool with the “user pays” principle, clearly the ones who put more miles on the roads should pay more for the construction and maintenance of the roads.

3. To @Mik’s point about potentially also tracking the vehicle’s weight, I think that also tracks well with the “user pays” principle in that if you think heavier vehicles put more wear on the roads for every mile traveled, then it stands to reason that heavier vehicles should incur higher tax for every mile traveled. (Incidentally that also partially addresses the environmentalists’ concerns as it encourages consumers and businesses to favor lighter vehicles, away from heavy “gas guzzlers.) Administratively it just another multiplier. No reason IRS cannot publish a list of such multipliers by weight class, and it’s easy enough to take one odometer reading per year and then multiply it by that weight class multiplier.

That said, if you still don’t like any of the above anyway, what alternatives would you prefer to solve the highway funding problem?

[taiwan_girl]

I think that there has to be something other than a gasoline tax.

A fee per mile is kind of the same thing as making every road a toll road.

[LuFins Dad]

1. It’s a regressive tax. Lower income individuals normally have to travel further for work than higher income families. They are also more likely to have to use automobiles for travel than higher income individuals. Most of the infrastructure costs would be a burden on the backs of the middle class and poor.

2. Everybody gets use from the road infrastructure. Everybody. Full stop. Groceries, electricity, medical care, national defense, postal services, water and sewage, everybody is dependent on the road system.

3. We don’t just tax parents for schools... Everybody bears that cost and everybody benefits.

4. Maintaining and building roads is one of the few legitimate functions of the Federal Government. Infrastructure should just be a portion of our Federal Budget funded from general tax revenue. Need more money? Start by cutting some of the non-essential spending. Then we can debate how best to increase revenue.

[LuFins Dad]

This is the most asinine idea in the history of dumbassery. We really are doomed.

[Mik]

But Ax has a legitimate point. If gas taxes pretty much disappear, how do we fund the interstate and US highways?

[Axtremus]

@LuFins-Dad, just saw that you wrote that the highways should be funded from general revenue. I’m OK with that.

[LuFins Dad]

@mik Line item in the budget. You either make cuts in unnecessary programs or you raise revenue. Putting it under a consumption tax is no good, whether that consumption is measured by the mile or by the gallon. Everybody is the beneficiary of the road systems, yet you have the lower incomes bear the brunt of that cost? Ridiculous. We don’t raise education dollars by levying higher taxes on those with school aged children...

[taiwan_girl]

@mik said in By the mile:

But Ax has a legitimate point. If gas taxes pretty much disappear, how do we fund the interstate and US highways?

Maybe you add a fee when you renew your license registration or license plate for your car/truck etc. I think most places in the US require a re-license plate every year.

Charge $X USD each time you do that. Maybe based on the value of the car?

[89th]

The whole thing is so improbable and impractical for a million reasons.

[Jolly]

@mik said in By the mile:

But Ax has a legitimate point. If gas taxes pretty much disappear, how do we fund the interstate and US highways?

Create a special tax for electric vehicles, payable upon issuance of license tags and upon renewal of those tags.

[Axtremus]

@jolly said in By the mile:

Create a special tax for electric vehicles, payable upon issuance of license tags and upon renewal of those tags.

How would you structure that tax? One time assessment or annual assessment? Flat tax, proportional to the fair market value of the vehicle at the time of assessment, proportional to weight of the vehicle, proportional to some other characteristics of the vehicle or the owner? Would like to know what principles you use to guide your thinking of said tax.

[Jolly]

@axtremus said in By the mile:

@jolly said in By the mile:

Create a special tax for electric vehicles, payable upon issuance of license tags and upon renewal of those tags.

How would you structure that tax? One time assessment or annual assessment? Flat tax, proportional to the fair market value of the vehicle at the time of assessment, proportional to weight of the vehicle, proportional to some other characteristics of the vehicle or the owner? Would like to know what principles you use to guide your thinking of said tax.

If it's licensed, that means the vehicle is on the road. If it is wrecked or junked, the license is not renewed. Tax is paid upon issuance and on renewal of tags.

[Axtremus]

@jolly said in By the mile:

@axtremus said in By the mile:

@jolly said in By the mile:

Create a special tax for electric vehicles, payable upon issuance of license tags and upon renewal of those tags.

How would you structure that tax? One time assessment or annual assessment? Flat tax, proportional to the fair market value of the vehicle at the time of assessment, proportional to weight of the vehicle, proportional to some other characteristics of the vehicle or the owner? Would like to know what principles you use to guide your thinking of said tax.

If it's licensed, that means the vehicle is on the road. If it is wrecked or junked, the license is not renewed. Tax is paid upon issuance and on renewal of tags.

OK, paid upon issuance and on renewal of tags.

What amount to pay? The same amount for every one, every electric vehicle ("flat tax"), or different amounts depending on some attributes or characteristics of the vehicle and/or the owner?

[Jolly]

@axtremus said in By the mile:

@jolly said in By the mile:

@axtremus said in By the mile:

@jolly said in By the mile:

Create a special tax for electric vehicles, payable upon issuance of license tags and upon renewal of those tags.

How would you structure that tax? One time assessment or annual assessment? Flat tax, proportional to the fair market value of the vehicle at the time of assessment, proportional to weight of the vehicle, proportional to some other characteristics of the vehicle or the owner? Would like to know what principles you use to guide your thinking of said tax.

If it's licensed, that means the vehicle is on the road. If it is wrecked or junked, the license is not renewed. Tax is paid upon issuance and on renewal of tags.

OK, paid upon issuance and on renewal of tags.

What amount to pay? The same amount for every one, every electric vehicle ("flat tax"), or different amounts depending on some attributes or characteristics of the vehicle and/or the owner?

Passenger/Delivery/Long Haul

[Axtremus]

@jolly said in By the mile:

@axtremus said in By the mile:

@jolly said in By the mile:

@axtremus said in By the mile:

@jolly said in By the mile:

Create a special tax for electric vehicles, payable upon issuance of license tags and upon renewal of those tags.

How would you structure that tax? One time assessment or annual assessment? Flat tax, proportional to the fair market value of the vehicle at the time of assessment, proportional to weight of the vehicle, proportional to some other characteristics of the vehicle or the owner? Would like to know what principles you use to guide your thinking of said tax.

If it's licensed, that means the vehicle is on the road. If it is wrecked or junked, the license is not renewed. Tax is paid upon issuance and on renewal of tags.

OK, paid upon issuance and on renewal of tags.

What amount to pay? The same amount for every one, every electric vehicle ("flat tax"), or different amounts depending on some attributes or characteristics of the vehicle and/or the owner?

Passenger/Delivery/Long Haul

What does “long haul” mean in this context?
How would you map those three categories to taxes (e.g., which category should pay more than the other)?
A sedan that seats four and a bus that seats 40 are both “passenger” vehicles. Would those two pay the same amount of tax in your proposal?

[Jolly]

@axtremus said in By the mile:

@jolly said in By the mile:

@axtremus said in By the mile:

@jolly said in By the mile:

@axtremus said in By the mile:

@jolly said in By the mile:

Create a special tax for electric vehicles, payable upon issuance of license tags and upon renewal of those tags.

How would you structure that tax? One time assessment or annual assessment? Flat tax, proportional to the fair market value of the vehicle at the time of assessment, proportional to weight of the vehicle, proportional to some other characteristics of the vehicle or the owner? Would like to know what principles you use to guide your thinking of said tax.

If it's licensed, that means the vehicle is on the road. If it is wrecked or junked, the license is not renewed. Tax is paid upon issuance and on renewal of tags.

OK, paid upon issuance and on renewal of tags.

What amount to pay? The same amount for every one, every electric vehicle ("flat tax"), or different amounts depending on some attributes or characteristics of the vehicle and/or the owner?

Passenger/Delivery/Long Haul

What does “long haul” mean in this context?
How would you map those three categories to taxes (e.g., which category should pay more than the other)?
A sedan that seats four and a bus that seats 40 are both “passenger” vehicles. Would those two pay the same amount of tax in your proposal?

A bus is not a passenger vehicle. They aren't titled or tagged as such.

[Jolly]

@axtremus said in By the mile:

What does “long haul” mean in this context?

Interstate commerce goods.