Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!
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Well, this entire helpful discussion could be tossed, if we go back to man's man V-8's. All 4's and most 6's sound dorky, doesn't matter what kind of exhaust system.
When classic 60's cars pull up with a growl, it means. . . The V-8's have arrived, dorks. Make way you little farts. -
@LuFins-Dad So I had a 2008 Ford Fusion V6 for eight years (2008-2016) but the maintenance was also building up and not worth pursuing. So I switched to a 2016 Honda Accord EX-L and love it. 4 cylinders, but it is speedy, handles great, has a great tech package (two screens, carplay, etc) and obviously can handle toddlers with room. I recommend it if she wants something similar to the fusion. Forget the 4 vs 6 and take it for a test drive.
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There's been a broad adoption of turbos across carmakers.
From the high-end down the to low end.
For example - the performance BMW and Mercedes models moved from a V8 to a turbocharged V6 over the last gen. (they even pumped in engine sound through the speakers because the V6 was much quieter).
In regular cars, there's been a broad substitution of 4-cylinder turbos from V6.
In terms of power and torque - a modern turbo 4 can be a lot better than a 90's/early 2000's v6 (not sure in terms of reliability).
My Golf had 225hp and 260ftlb of torque... thing kicked ass on our v6 honda sedan from back in the day in terms of performance.
(The new Golf R has 310Hp and 315ftlb of torque (!!!!) - just checked. )
But you're right - the new engines are not across-the-board better than the old v6s. Many suck. But they are more efficient across the board.
EDIT: as to why this is happening. With new transmission tech and software - you can get to yesteryear V6 performance with a 4-banger. You could apply the same techniques to a V6 as well - but you start getting into ridiculous performance territory then.
@xenon said in Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!:
There's been a broad adoption of turbos across carmakers.
From the high-end down the to low end.
For example - the performance BMW and Mercedes models moved from a V8 to a turbocharged V6 over the last gen. (they even pumped in engine sound through the speakers because the V6 was much quieter).
In regular cars, there's been a broad substitution of 4-cylinder turbos from V6.
In terms of power and torque - a modern turbo 4 can be a lot better than a 90's/early 2000's v6 (not sure in terms of reliability).
My Golf had 225hp and 260ftlb of torque... thing kicked ass on our v6 honda sedan from back in the day in terms of performance.
(The new Golf R has 310Hp and 315ftlb of torque (!!!!) - just checked. )
But you're right - the new engines are not across-the-board better than the old v6s. Many suck. But they are more efficient across the board.
EDIT: as to why this is happening. With new transmission tech and software - you can get to yesteryear V6 performance with a 4-banger. You could apply the same techniques to a V6 as well - but you start getting into ridiculous performance territory then.
No, why this is happening is because of mandatory fuel efficiency standards being pushed through Congress.
On paper, maybe they show the same performance. On the 4 mile long 10-14 percent incline going into Somerset in Pennsylvania, you’ll see all those nice turbo 4’s barely managing 20 miles per hour and getting passed like they were standing still by 20-30 year old vans and sedans. I’ve test driven a lot of cars and I keep hearing about how good the new 4 cylinders are, and they do fine on flat level roads (uninspiring, but fine) but on an incline?
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Karla's Ford Fusion recently passed the 200K mark. It is a 2012 and even though she has taken immaculate care of it and wants to put work into it to get it to 300K, I think it's time to retire the car. She needs AC work that will cost $1500, plus, at this age I think we should have the engine and transmission mounts replaced, the seals checked, and countless other little things. If everything went perfect, it's still going to be at least $3,000 and I'm sure that we will find other issues.
I've started researching her picks for a new vehicle if this does need replaced. Her first choice is a Subaru Outback (her real first choice is a Mustang, but she doesn't think it's a good car for an 18-month toddler). I started looking over the specs and noticed it only comes in a 4.5 liter 4 or 4.4 "turbo" 4. I'm sorry, but you can "turbo" the hell out of a 4 cylinder and it's still a 4 cylinder. So I started searching for other wagon/crossover SUVS. They are all 4 cylinder. Apparently my 2013 Terrain was the last 6 they built. I can't find a 6 until going all the way up to Ford Explorer, and at that weight the engine should be a frigging V8...
Yeah, yeah, yeah... I've heard all the crap about a 4 cylinder being as powerful as a 6, and that's exactly what it is, crap. I can't tell you how many 4 cylinders I blow past in my Terrain. But all the people with their weak little 4 cylinder vehicles tell themselves that to make them feel better.
So, any suggestions for a decent newish crossover with a big enough engine that it's not going to blow out trying to climb the hills of Western PA and MD? Or do I need to consider bumping her up to a truck?
@lufins-dad said in Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!:
Yeah, yeah, yeah... I've heard all the crap about a 4 cylinder being as powerful as a 6, and that's exactly what it is, crap. I can't tell you how many 4 cylinders I blow past in my Terrain. But all the people with their weak little 4 cylinder vehicles tell themselves that to make them feel better.
Do you have any real data to back up that claim? Maybe it’s you who tells himself something to make himself feel better?
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This spring I’ll probably buy a Mazda CX-5 with a 4 cyl turbo that makes 250HP and does 0-60 in 6.1s.
You know what comes in a 6? The entry level mustang.
Here are some SUVs, but they’re all quite big and on the pricey side.
"You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
-Cormac McCarthy -
@lufins-dad said in Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!:
Yeah, yeah, yeah... I've heard all the crap about a 4 cylinder being as powerful as a 6, and that's exactly what it is, crap. I can't tell you how many 4 cylinders I blow past in my Terrain. But all the people with their weak little 4 cylinder vehicles tell themselves that to make them feel better.
Do you have any real data to back up that claim? Maybe it’s you who tells himself something to make himself feel better?
@klaus said in Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!:
@lufins-dad said in Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!:
Yeah, yeah, yeah... I've heard all the crap about a 4 cylinder being as powerful as a 6, and that's exactly what it is, crap. I can't tell you how many 4 cylinders I blow past in my Terrain. But all the people with their weak little 4 cylinder vehicles tell themselves that to make them feel better.
Do you have any real data to back up that claim? Maybe it’s you who tells himself something to make himself feel better?
You can definitely feel a smaller engine let you know it’s making a lot of effort.
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@jon-nyc the problem is those big pricey SUV’s with the 6 really need to be V8. It’s about weight load.
My wife had a 4 back in 98-06. It was a fun little ride. Little being the operative word. It also still suffered on long inclines.
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I found a good breakdown:
https://www.hallcars.com/blog/should-i-get-a-v6-or-a-turbocharged-four-cylinder-engine/
The Brad
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Karla's Ford Fusion recently passed the 200K mark. It is a 2012 and even though she has taken immaculate care of it and wants to put work into it to get it to 300K, I think it's time to retire the car. She needs AC work that will cost $1500, plus, at this age I think we should have the engine and transmission mounts replaced, the seals checked, and countless other little things. If everything went perfect, it's still going to be at least $3,000 and I'm sure that we will find other issues.
I've started researching her picks for a new vehicle if this does need replaced. Her first choice is a Subaru Outback (her real first choice is a Mustang, but she doesn't think it's a good car for an 18-month toddler). I started looking over the specs and noticed it only comes in a 4.5 liter 4 or 4.4 "turbo" 4. I'm sorry, but you can "turbo" the hell out of a 4 cylinder and it's still a 4 cylinder. So I started searching for other wagon/crossover SUVS. They are all 4 cylinder. Apparently my 2013 Terrain was the last 6 they built. I can't find a 6 until going all the way up to Ford Explorer, and at that weight the engine should be a frigging V8...
Yeah, yeah, yeah... I've heard all the crap about a 4 cylinder being as powerful as a 6, and that's exactly what it is, crap. I can't tell you how many 4 cylinders I blow past in my Terrain. But all the people with their weak little 4 cylinder vehicles tell themselves that to make them feel better.
So, any suggestions for a decent newish crossover with a big enough engine that it's not going to blow out trying to climb the hills of Western PA and MD? Or do I need to consider bumping her up to a truck?
A turbo 4 and a V6 that can go 0-60 in the same time, try test driving both. You hear and feel the difference. The great news is if you are used to the smaller engine, you will be fine. Just buy it. If you are used to all things the bigger engine, you will want to buy the larger engine again.
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0-60 is generally a poor metric, anyway. It’s very rare that you need to go from a standing position to 60mph in 7 seconds. 0-30? That’s a bit more practical. 0-20? Everyday...Those turbo 4s start slow and then catch it up on the backend of a level stretch. That lag is one of my main issues.
The Brad
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0-60 is generally a poor metric, anyway. It’s very rare that you need to go from a standing position to 60mph in 7 seconds. 0-30? That’s a bit more practical. 0-20? Everyday...Those turbo 4s start slow and then catch it up on the backend of a level stretch. That lag is one of my main issues.
@lufins-dad said in Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!:
0-60 is generally a poor metric, anyway. It’s very rare that you need to go from a standing position to 60mph in 7 seconds. 0-30? That’s a bit more practical. 0-20? Everyday...Those turbo 4s start slow and then catch it up on the backend of a level stretch. That lag is one of my main issues.
Very true and the rubber meets the road with the confidence you feel in turning on to a busy road and crossing to make a left turn.
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0-60 is generally a poor metric, anyway. It’s very rare that you need to go from a standing position to 60mph in 7 seconds. 0-30? That’s a bit more practical. 0-20? Everyday...Those turbo 4s start slow and then catch it up on the backend of a level stretch. That lag is one of my main issues.
@lufins-dad said in Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!:
0-60 is generally a poor metric, anyway. It’s very rare that you need to go from a standing position to 60mph in 7 seconds. 0-30? That’s a bit more practical. 0-20? Everyday...Those turbo 4s start slow and then catch it up on the backend of a level stretch. That lag is one of my main issues.
A large number of drivers I get stuck behind take a good ten seconds to notice the lights have freaking changed, so it's totally irrelevant.
Never bloody mind how many cyclinders you've got. STOP LOOKING AT THE DAMN PHONE!
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Sorry, I got distracted for a moment. -
0-60 is generally a poor metric, anyway. It’s very rare that you need to go from a standing position to 60mph in 7 seconds. 0-30? That’s a bit more practical. 0-20? Everyday...Those turbo 4s start slow and then catch it up on the backend of a level stretch. That lag is one of my main issues.
@lufins-dad said in Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!:
0-60 is generally a poor metric, anyway. It’s very rare that you need to go from a standing position to 60mph in 7 seconds. 0-30? That’s a bit more practical. 0-20? Everyday...Those turbo 4s start slow and then catch it up on the backend of a level stretch. That lag is one of my main issues.
You're not necessarily wrong, but you're probably an edge case .
There's nothing stopping carmakers from making V6s. It's a very competitive, if they thought they could make more money - more would offer it.
The demographic of people who go smaller SUV + want good towing capacity, incline performance is probably small.
You'll likely have to look up-market, full-size SUV for what you want.
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I found a good breakdown:
https://www.hallcars.com/blog/should-i-get-a-v6-or-a-turbocharged-four-cylinder-engine/
@lufins-dad said in Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!:
I found a good breakdown:
https://www.hallcars.com/blog/should-i-get-a-v6-or-a-turbocharged-four-cylinder-engine/
This is a good article lufins-dad posted. If you don't know the difference between turbo and non-turbo, or if you do not know what "turbo lag" or "naturally aspirated" means, read this short article.
Insurance companies are touting their "safe drive" approach to track people's driving habits. I figured it was in part because they know that 4-cyl turbo cars are fun to lead-foot, and people in general run the hell out of them.
Someone made the observation that it's not 0 - 60 that is so important. Rather, it's something like 35 - 90, when you need to punch it to pass some dork and need to get around a whole herd of dorks. Yes, and knowing what a power curve is and when it peaks on your particular vehicle, that kind of stuff is important.
My diesel is at 1600 rpm while going 80 in 8th gear. And I still have trouble trying to figure out (feels weird) how a diesel develops so much power in terms of torque at such a low rpm. The Audi's were designed for that Autobahn thing, where you drive like a crazy person until you screw up and your life ends in a huge ball of fire. Or not.
Fun talking about cars again. Trump doesn't drive, W00t!!
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@lufins-dad said in Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!:
0-60 is generally a poor metric, anyway. It’s very rare that you need to go from a standing position to 60mph in 7 seconds. 0-30? That’s a bit more practical. 0-20? Everyday...Those turbo 4s start slow and then catch it up on the backend of a level stretch. That lag is one of my main issues.
You're not necessarily wrong, but you're probably an edge case .
There's nothing stopping carmakers from making V6s. It's a very competitive, if they thought they could make more money - more would offer it.
The demographic of people who go smaller SUV + want good towing capacity, incline performance is probably small.
You'll likely have to look up-market, full-size SUV for what you want.
@xenon said in Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!:
@lufins-dad said in Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!:
0-60 is generally a poor metric, anyway. It’s very rare that you need to go from a standing position to 60mph in 7 seconds. 0-30? That’s a bit more practical. 0-20? Everyday...Those turbo 4s start slow and then catch it up on the backend of a level stretch. That lag is one of my main issues.
You're not necessarily wrong, but you're probably an edge case .
There's nothing stopping carmakers from making V6s. It's a very competitive, if they thought they could make more money - more would offer it.
The demographic of people who go smaller SUV + want good towing capacity, incline performance is probably small.
You'll likely have to look up-market, full-size SUV for what you want.
What I’d really like is a nice van. Karla’s absolutely dead set against that, though. She’s trying to balance responsibility with maybe a bit of a midlife crisis? She wants the features of a minivan on something that isn’t a minivan. These crossover SUV’s seem to fill the niche of neither, IMO. I get more practical trunk space and a larger and nicer interior in a sedan than a crossover SUV... A Camry or Avalon would be my second choice.
I think the compromise might be a midsized pickup.
I think we migh
The Brad
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Didn’t you have a van? I seem to remember you dropping me off at my hotel in one after beers many moons ago.
@jon-nyc said in Any vehicles with a V6 still being made?!:
Didn’t you have a van? I seem to remember you dropping me off at my hotel in one after beers many moons ago.
Yep. Ran that sucker into the ground.
