The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...

[George K]

@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

What I object to is him telling other people what to do. He's telling them to take the risk. He can do what he likes with his own risk.

(Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with the objection to the J&J vaccine on moral grounds, at all.)

However, consider this line of thought.

1. There exists a potential for saving the lives of many people.
2. That potential exists because you murder someone.
3. Is is morally acceptable to kill that person to save others' lives?
4. If the other person had been killed by an immoral act, is it acceptable to use his death to your advantage?
5. Which way should the trolley go?

[Jolly]

@george-k said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

What I object to is him telling other people what to do. He's telling them to take the risk. He can do what he likes with his own risk.

(Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with the objection to the J&J vaccine on moral grounds, at all.)

However, consider this line of thought.

1. There exists a potential for saving the lives of many people.
2. That potential exists because you murder someone.
3. Is is morally acceptable to kill that person to save others' lives?
4. If the other person had been killed by an immoral act, is it acceptable to use his death to your advantage?
5. Which way should the trolley go?

Boenhoeffer smiled.

[Doctor Phibes]

@george-k said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

What I object to is him telling other people what to do. He's telling them to take the risk. He can do what he likes with his own risk.

(Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with the objection to the J&J vaccine on moral grounds, at all.)

However, consider this line of thought.

1. There exists a potential for saving the lives of many people.
2. That potential exists because you murder someone.
3. Is is morally acceptable to kill that person to save others' lives?
4. If the other person had been killed by an immoral act, is it acceptable to use his death to your advantage?
5. Which way should the trolley go?

The abortion's already happened. It would have happened whether or not Covid occurred. Nobody's being killed to develop vaccines. Also, whether you have the shot or not doesn't make the slightest difference at this point.

Was it wrong to use Nazi rocket science to put a man on the moon? The knowledge was there, whether or not America used it. If they hadn't, the Soviets would have done. Whether or not Apollo 11 was developed, von-Braun's slaves were already dead.

In other words, the bad thing's already happened. Whether you choose for something positive come out of it won't reverse it.

[George K]

@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

The abortion's already happened. It would have happened whether or not Covid occurred.

Good point. Supposedly these cells are at least a decade old.

Is it immoral to take advantage of a "crime" that occurred before the question arose?

As I said, I'm not agreeing with the thinking, just trying to flesh out the arguments against, as well as pro.

[Doctor Phibes]

If there were no other alternatives to this particular vaccine, would this Bishop still tell people not to take it?

Millions could die needlessly in that situation.

It's very hard to describe that position as being 'pro-life'.

[Renauda]

@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

If there were no other alternatives to this particular vaccine, would this Bishop still tell people not to take it?

That is a very good question. My hunch is that he would advise against.

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

If there were no other alternatives to this particular vaccine, would this Bishop still tell people not to take it?

Millions could die needlessly in that situation.

It's very hard to describe that position as being 'pro-life'.

Ah, but there is an alternative...

[George K]

@jolly said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

Ah, but there is an alternative...

Is that alternative available to everyone?

How many would get sick because of that unavailability, and how many would die?

[Jolly]

@george-k said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

@jolly said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

Ah, but there is an alternative...

Is that alternative available to everyone?

How many would get sick because of that unavailability, and how many would die?

If you wait, the alternative will be available.

And some hills may be worth dying on.

[Doctor Phibes]

Again, if he wants to die on it, that's his choice. Don't tell other people to die on it. Some of whom may be at greater risk than he is.

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

Again, if he wants to die on it, that's his choice. Don't tell other people to die on it. Some of whom may be at greater risk than he is.

I'm not Catholic. And neither are you.

[Aqua Letifer]

@jolly said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

Again, if he wants to die on it, that's his choice. Don't tell other people to die on it. Some of whom may be at greater risk than he is.

I'm not Catholic. And neither are you.

Vatican says it's cool.

[bachophile]

I’ll give you immorality....

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

Again, if he wants to die on it, that's his choice. Don't tell other people to die on it. Some of whom may be at greater risk than he is.

I'm not Catholic. And neither are you.

So I shouldn't criticise anything the RC church has done through the centuries?

And the Pope has said using the vaccine is acceptable.

He's picked a fine time to develop independent thought.

Is it OK to put people at risk over your religious beliefs?

[mark]

Probably the only song ever written about fetal stem cells.

And it kicks ass! Spend the time with it. Imagine trying to perform this live. It's worth it. I found a video with lyrics.

Link to video

[LuFins Dad]

Question 1) Would you accept a kidney transplant from a donor that had been murdered?

Question 2) Would you accept a kidney transplant from a Doctor that purchased the kidney from a murderer?

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

@jolly said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

Again, if he wants to die on it, that's his choice. Don't tell other people to die on it. Some of whom may be at greater risk than he is.

I'm not Catholic. And neither are you.

So I shouldn't criticise anything the RC church has done through the centuries?

And the Pope has said using the vaccine is acceptable.

He's picked a fine time to develop independent thought.

Is it OK to put people at risk over your religious beliefs?

You can criticize, but you don't have their belief system. It's an ethical question for them. On one hand, the fact that your vaccine is made from aborted babies is indisputable. On the other, whether a Catholic becomes infected or not, and whether they transmit the disease is not complete certainty.

Lastly, and most importantly, there are other vaccines available, especially to the most vulnerable and especially at this time.

Medical ethics is not always one-fits-all .

[Doctor Phibes]

@lufins-dad said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

Question 1) Would you accept a kidney transplant from a donor that had been murdered?

Question 2) Would you accept a kidney transplant from a Doctor that purchased the kidney from a murderer?

The actual question is whether you would tell other people not to accept a kidney transplant from somebody who was murdered. As I said before, the Bishop can do what he likes with his own life.

[LuFins Dad]

@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

@lufins-dad said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

Question 1) Would you accept a kidney transplant from a donor that had been murdered?

Question 2) Would you accept a kidney transplant from a Doctor that purchased the kidney from a murderer?

The actual question is whether you would tell other people not to accept a kidney transplant from somebody who was murdered. As I said before, the Bishop can do what he likes with his own life.

No, it’s ad’s advising them not to get the transplant from a hospital that purchases organs from traffickers that do the killing. And that is a different ethical question.

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:

Medical ethics is not always one-fits-all .

This is true.

I also think the Jehovah's witnesses are misguided idiots regarding their opinions regarding blood transfusions.

Anybody care to defend them?