The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...
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@jolly said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
@aqua-letifer said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/22/vatican-says-getting-covid-vaccine-morally-acceptable
Archbishop of New Orleans has said no takee.
@Jolly do you know of other Christian denominations/churches that take the same position as the Archbishop of New Orleans about not taking the J&J vaccine?
@axtremus said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
@jolly said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
@aqua-letifer said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/22/vatican-says-getting-covid-vaccine-morally-acceptable
Archbishop of New Orleans has said no takee.
@Jolly do you know of other Christian denominations/churches that take the same position as the Archbishop of New Orleans about not taking the J&J vaccine?
Nope, but the Archbishop did not make that decision in a vacuum. That decision was vetted before a Catholic ethics committee before his pronouncement.
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Calling yourself pro-life and then instructing people to risk theirs is a bit much.
Still, all the more for the rest of us.
I was only joking
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I have no clue how you get in a non J and J line. There is no such thing as choosing your flavor at this time.
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Calling yourself pro-life and then instructing people to risk theirs is a bit much.
Still, all the more for the rest of us.
@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
Calling yourself pro-life and then instructing people to risk theirs is a bit much.
Still, all the more for the rest of us.
Stop and think...If aborted fetal cell lines were used to concoct the J&J vaccine (they were, but the lines are several years old) and you feel very strongly that abortion = murder (and some people do), it is not an illogical stance.
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@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
Calling yourself pro-life and then instructing people to risk theirs is a bit much.
Still, all the more for the rest of us.
Stop and think...If aborted fetal cell lines were used to concoct the J&J vaccine (they were, but the lines are several years old) and you feel very strongly that abortion = murder (and some people do), it is not an illogical stance.
@jolly said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
Calling yourself pro-life and then instructing people to risk theirs is a bit much.
Still, all the more for the rest of us.
Stop and think...If aborted fetal cell lines were used to concoct the J&J vaccine (they were, but the lines are several years old) and you feel very strongly that abortion = murder (and some people do), it is not an illogical stance.
What I object to is him telling other people what to do. He's telling them to take the risk. He can do what he likes with his own risk.
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@jolly said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
Calling yourself pro-life and then instructing people to risk theirs is a bit much.
Still, all the more for the rest of us.
Stop and think...If aborted fetal cell lines were used to concoct the J&J vaccine (they were, but the lines are several years old) and you feel very strongly that abortion = murder (and some people do), it is not an illogical stance.
What I object to is him telling other people what to do. He's telling them to take the risk. He can do what he likes with his own risk.
@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
What I object to is him telling other people what to do. He's telling them to take the risk. He can do what he likes with his own risk.
(Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with the objection to the J&J vaccine on moral grounds, at all.)
However, consider this line of thought.
- There exists a potential for saving the lives of many people.
- That potential exists because you murder someone.
- Is is morally acceptable to kill that person to save others' lives?
- If the other person had been killed by an immoral act, is it acceptable to use his death to your advantage?
- Which way should the trolley go?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
What I object to is him telling other people what to do. He's telling them to take the risk. He can do what he likes with his own risk.
(Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with the objection to the J&J vaccine on moral grounds, at all.)
However, consider this line of thought.
- There exists a potential for saving the lives of many people.
- That potential exists because you murder someone.
- Is is morally acceptable to kill that person to save others' lives?
- If the other person had been killed by an immoral act, is it acceptable to use his death to your advantage?
- Which way should the trolley go?
@george-k said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
What I object to is him telling other people what to do. He's telling them to take the risk. He can do what he likes with his own risk.
(Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with the objection to the J&J vaccine on moral grounds, at all.)
However, consider this line of thought.
- There exists a potential for saving the lives of many people.
- That potential exists because you murder someone.
- Is is morally acceptable to kill that person to save others' lives?
- If the other person had been killed by an immoral act, is it acceptable to use his death to your advantage?
- Which way should the trolley go?
Boenhoeffer smiled.
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@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
What I object to is him telling other people what to do. He's telling them to take the risk. He can do what he likes with his own risk.
(Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with the objection to the J&J vaccine on moral grounds, at all.)
However, consider this line of thought.
- There exists a potential for saving the lives of many people.
- That potential exists because you murder someone.
- Is is morally acceptable to kill that person to save others' lives?
- If the other person had been killed by an immoral act, is it acceptable to use his death to your advantage?
- Which way should the trolley go?
@george-k said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
What I object to is him telling other people what to do. He's telling them to take the risk. He can do what he likes with his own risk.
(Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with the objection to the J&J vaccine on moral grounds, at all.)
However, consider this line of thought.
- There exists a potential for saving the lives of many people.
- That potential exists because you murder someone.
- Is is morally acceptable to kill that person to save others' lives?
- If the other person had been killed by an immoral act, is it acceptable to use his death to your advantage?
- Which way should the trolley go?
The abortion's already happened. It would have happened whether or not Covid occurred. Nobody's being killed to develop vaccines. Also, whether you have the shot or not doesn't make the slightest difference at this point.
Was it wrong to use Nazi rocket science to put a man on the moon? The knowledge was there, whether or not America used it. If they hadn't, the Soviets would have done. Whether or not Apollo 11 was developed, von-Braun's slaves were already dead.
In other words, the bad thing's already happened. Whether you choose for something positive come out of it won't reverse it.
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@george-k said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
What I object to is him telling other people what to do. He's telling them to take the risk. He can do what he likes with his own risk.
(Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with the objection to the J&J vaccine on moral grounds, at all.)
However, consider this line of thought.
- There exists a potential for saving the lives of many people.
- That potential exists because you murder someone.
- Is is morally acceptable to kill that person to save others' lives?
- If the other person had been killed by an immoral act, is it acceptable to use his death to your advantage?
- Which way should the trolley go?
The abortion's already happened. It would have happened whether or not Covid occurred. Nobody's being killed to develop vaccines. Also, whether you have the shot or not doesn't make the slightest difference at this point.
Was it wrong to use Nazi rocket science to put a man on the moon? The knowledge was there, whether or not America used it. If they hadn't, the Soviets would have done. Whether or not Apollo 11 was developed, von-Braun's slaves were already dead.
In other words, the bad thing's already happened. Whether you choose for something positive come out of it won't reverse it.
@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
The abortion's already happened. It would have happened whether or not Covid occurred.
Good point. Supposedly these cells are at least a decade old.
Is it immoral to take advantage of a "crime" that occurred before the question arose?
As I said, I'm not agreeing with the thinking, just trying to flesh out the arguments against, as well as pro.
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If there were no other alternatives to this particular vaccine, would this Bishop still tell people not to take it?
Millions could die needlessly in that situation.
It's very hard to describe that position as being 'pro-life'.
I was only joking
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If there were no other alternatives to this particular vaccine, would this Bishop still tell people not to take it?
Millions could die needlessly in that situation.
It's very hard to describe that position as being 'pro-life'.
@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
If there were no other alternatives to this particular vaccine, would this Bishop still tell people not to take it?
That is a very good question. My hunch is that he would advise against.
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If there were no other alternatives to this particular vaccine, would this Bishop still tell people not to take it?
Millions could die needlessly in that situation.
It's very hard to describe that position as being 'pro-life'.
@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
If there were no other alternatives to this particular vaccine, would this Bishop still tell people not to take it?
Millions could die needlessly in that situation.
It's very hard to describe that position as being 'pro-life'.
Ah, but there is an alternative...
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@doctor-phibes said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
If there were no other alternatives to this particular vaccine, would this Bishop still tell people not to take it?
Millions could die needlessly in that situation.
It's very hard to describe that position as being 'pro-life'.
Ah, but there is an alternative...
@jolly said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
Ah, but there is an alternative...
Is that alternative available to everyone?
How many would get sick because of that unavailability, and how many would die?
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@jolly said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
Ah, but there is an alternative...
Is that alternative available to everyone?
How many would get sick because of that unavailability, and how many would die?
@george-k said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
@jolly said in The Immorality of the J&J Vaccine ...:
Ah, but there is an alternative...
Is that alternative available to everyone?
How many would get sick because of that unavailability, and how many would die?
If you wait, the alternative will be available.
And some hills may be worth dying on.
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Again, if he wants to die on it, that's his choice. Don't tell other people to die on it. Some of whom may be at greater risk than he is.
