The Big Lie
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@horace said in The Big Lie:
@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
A second difference is that the violent fanaticism on the left, which in many cases is actually worse than that on the right, was not egged on by a former or current President of the United States.
The fact that people cannot bring themselves to condemn this individual is pretty close to being tacit approval of the violence that took place in the Capitol.
To call these people 'conservatives' is an insult to a great political tradition.
Wokeism and anti-racism have absolutely been condoned by current and former presidents. I was particularly dismayed when GWB wrote an essay on systemic racism in the wake of George Floyd. It goes without saying that the Obamas, especially Michelle, are completely on board with the systemic racism narrative.
As for Trump, I think he went too hard on the election theft thing, in service of his inability to admit to losing. Some doofi took that as permission to enter the Capitol, through unguarded, unlocked doors. Trump immediately told them to go home, and immediately made clear that the rule of law must exist. As it does not, to this day, in Portland.
He didn't tell them immediately. He also told them that he loved them. He said that Mike Pence was a coward, and has repeatedly personally attacked numbers of people who refused to attempt to subvert the US Constitution on his behalf.
If you can't see the difference between supporting the idea of systemic racism as being a problem and encouraging the mob, then there's not much point discussing it.
I support Irish independence, but I sure as hell don't condone the Provisional IRA, or make excuses for their murderous barbarism.
@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
A second difference is that the violent fanaticism on the left, which in many cases is actually worse than that on the right, was not egged on by a former or current President of the United States.
The fact that people cannot bring themselves to condemn this individual is pretty close to being tacit approval of the violence that took place in the Capitol.
To call these people 'conservatives' is an insult to a great political tradition.
Wokeism and anti-racism have absolutely been condoned by current and former presidents. I was particularly dismayed when GWB wrote an essay on systemic racism in the wake of George Floyd. It goes without saying that the Obamas, especially Michelle, are completely on board with the systemic racism narrative.
As for Trump, I think he went too hard on the election theft thing, in service of his inability to admit to losing. Some doofi took that as permission to enter the Capitol, through unguarded, unlocked doors. Trump immediately told them to go home, and immediately made clear that the rule of law must exist. As it does not, to this day, in Portland.
He didn't tell them immediately. He also told them that he loved them. He said that Mike Pence was a coward, and has repeatedly personally attacked numbers of people who refused to attempt to subvert the US Constitution on his behalf.
If you can't see the difference between supporting the idea of systemic racism as being a problem and encouraging the mob, then there's not much point discussing it.
I support Irish independence, but I sure as hell don't condone the Provisional IRA, or make excuses for their murderous barbarism.
Trump is an asshole, and he shouldn't have called Pence a coward. I understand he told the whole crowd he loved them, in the same speech where he specifically condemned any lawlessness. If that speech wasn't immediate, it was close to. I don't believe Trump ever saw a positive side to a Capitol invasion or any lawlessness whatsoever. I believe he's smarter than that.
I do not believe he leads a murderous barbarous mob. -
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
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@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
Are we playing word games now? In what way do I not rate as a conservative? Use your words.
Education is extremely important.
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I'm a liberal, but I'm not an American liberal.
I like Top Gear, but I won't countenance American Top Gear under any circumstances.
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@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
Are we playing word games now? In what way do I not rate as a conservative? Use your words.
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
Are we playing word games now? In what way do I not rate as a conservative? Use your words.
No. Why?
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@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
Are we playing word games now? In what way do I not rate as a conservative? Use your words.
No. Why?
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
Are we playing word games now? In what way do I not rate as a conservative? Use your words.
No. Why?
I self identify as a conservative. It's pretty illiberal of you to question my self identification. Conservative even.
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I'd humbly suggest that Renauda qualifies as a conservative, at least in a country that hasn't changed the meaning of the term.
I was only joking
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I'd humbly suggest that Renauda qualifies as a conservative, at least in a country that hasn't changed the meaning of the term.
@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
I'd humbly suggest that Renauda qualifies as a conservative, at least in a country that hasn't changed the meaning of the term.
But he identifies as left-leaning in America. And apparently thinks there is only one actual conservative on this forum. I'm just asking him to explain his definition, but I'm not holding my breath.
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@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
I'd humbly suggest that Renauda qualifies as a conservative, at least in a country that hasn't changed the meaning of the term.
But he identifies as left-leaning in America. And apparently thinks there is only one actual conservative on this forum. I'm just asking him to explain his definition, but I'm not holding my breath.
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I'd humbly suggest that Renauda qualifies as a conservative, at least in a country that hasn't changed the meaning of the term.
@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
I'd humbly suggest that Renauda qualifies as a conservative, at least in a country that hasn't changed the meaning of the term.
That was probably the case until about six or seven years ago. Since that time I have come to the conclusion that conservatism in this country is every bit as intellectually and morally bankrupt as it is elsewhere in the western world. Much of it has to do with a half century of unopposed conservative governance in the province I live along with the perversion of conservatism federally under the Harper regime.
Right now I am happy that I live in the only NDP federal riding in Alberta. Likewise, the city in which I live, returned an almost exclusive NDP sweep in the provincial election 18 months ago. It is the only credible opposition to the United Conservatives that won that provincial election.
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@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
I'd humbly suggest that Renauda qualifies as a conservative, at least in a country that hasn't changed the meaning of the term.
That was probably the case until about six or seven years ago. Since that time I have come to the conclusion that conservatism in this country is every bit as intellectually and morally bankrupt as it is elsewhere in the western world. Much of it has to do with a half century of unopposed conservative governance in the province I live along with the perversion of conservatism federally under the Harper regime.
Right now I am happy that I live in the only NDP federal riding in Alberta. Likewise, the city in which I live, returned an almost exclusive NDP sweep in the provincial election 18 months ago. It is the only credible opposition to the United Conservatives that won that provincial election.
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
morally bankrupt
Morals are universal and have little to do with political leaning.
There are of course those who think life is all about the moral high-ground (aka wokeness).
This is ignorance. Which also has little to do with political leanings.
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@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Glad you're not holding your breath. You just might hurt yourself.
Glad you're not attempting to explain your contention that there is only one real conservative on this forum. You just might embarrass yourself.
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@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Glad you're not holding your breath. You just might hurt yourself.
Glad you're not attempting to explain your contention that there is only one real conservative on this forum. You just might embarrass yourself.
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@horace Come to think of it there is one other conservative here.
I regret to inform you, it's not you.
Say, when was the last time you voted in an election?
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace Come to think of it there is one other conservative here.
Thanks for not naming them. Coyness is super cool.
I regret to inform you, it's not you.
Well, you can't define your terms, so...
Say, when was the last time you voted in an election?
That would be the last time I thought my vote would have carried any probablistic weight towards the election outcome.
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Mr. Horace, at the very least a true conservative would make the effort of casting their vote and exercising their right in the democratic process.
Until such time you exercise your right to vote, I am unable to consider your political stance little more than textbook cynicism and whining about the world in which you live.
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Mr. Horace, at the very least a true conservative would make the effort of casting their vote and exercising their right in the democratic process.
Until such time you exercise your right to vote, I am unable to consider your political stance little more than textbook cynicism and whining about the world in which you live.
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Mr. Horace, at the very least a true conservative would make the effort of casting their vote and exercising their right in the democratic process.
Until such time you exercise your right to vote, I am unable to consider your political stance little more than textbook cynicism and whining about the world in which you live.
Forgive me for seeing your "vote or shut up" as a convenient bit of ad hom against someone you're ill equipped to discuss American culture with.
I would discuss Canadian politics with you, but to be honest, nobody cares about Canada.
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@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Mr. Horace, at the very least a true conservative would make the effort of casting their vote and exercising their right in the democratic process.
Until such time you exercise your right to vote, I am unable to consider your political stance little more than textbook cynicism and whining about the world in which you live.
Forgive me for seeing your "vote or shut up" as a convenient bit of ad hom against someone you're ill equipped to discuss American culture with.
I would discuss Canadian politics with you, but to be honest, nobody cares about Canada.
I really wouldn't care to discuss Canadian politics with you either. That would require you to have at least a rudimentary knowledge of Western history since the Renaissance; a prerequisite you apparently have never acquired.
However I am quite the US is no different than here when it comes to voting rights. The saying here is "if you don't use your right to vote, you don't have the right to bitch".
Elbows up!
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@renauda said in The Big Lie:
morally bankrupt
Morals are universal and have little to do with political leaning.
There are of course those who think life is all about the moral high-ground (aka wokeness).
This is ignorance. Which also has little to do with political leanings.
@copper said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
morally bankrupt
Morals are universal and have little to do with political leaning.
There are of course those who think life is all about the moral high-ground (aka wokeness).
This is ignorance. Which also has little to do with political leanings.
I'm glad you mentioned this. I have for some time now like yourself, no doubt, thought the Democrat Party quite morally bankrupt. I still feel that way, despite some interesting ideas in the DNC on how the future might be.
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I really wouldn't care to discuss Canadian politics with you either. That would require you to have at least a rudimentary knowledge of Western history since the Renaissance; a prerequisite you apparently have never acquired.
However I am quite the US is no different than here when it comes to voting rights. The saying here is "if you don't use your right to vote, you don't have the right to bitch".
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace However I am quite the US is no different than here when it comes to voting rights. The saying here is "if you don't use your right to vote, you don't have the right to bitch".
Yes, that's an essentially thoughtless idea, a convenient and lazy trump card used by people who don't want to have a conversation with someone they know didn't vote. Obviously, living in a culture, surrounded by its politics, gives people sufficient agency to opine about it. Whether or not they chose to spend an afternoon amongst the masses waiting in line to cast a statistically meaningless vote. Obviously.
