Trump to unveil healthcare plan
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@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
Are you aware that the world existed before 1985?
So what's the formula then? What changed in the 70's that could bring cost control mechanisms back to the healthcare market?
Can we at least agree that much of the cost of care is going up because we have way more advanced, numerous and expensive therapies than in the past?
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Thats not 'the story from The Hill'. Thats an opinion piece by Newt.
Anyway, tg is right. Trump still thinks the plan is in development, to be released any week now.
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@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
Good God....
What are you even saying? At least I'm telling you where I'm coming from.
That the cost of therapies is going up, pushing up the cost of insurance. Doctors or hospitals don't try to contain cost when thinking about savings patients lives.
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You insist on making everything fit through the system you know. It's like beating my head against a wall trying to get you to stop doing that.
@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
You insist on making everything fit through the system you know. It's like beating my head against a wall trying to get you to stop doing that.
I really don't know what you're talking about.
I'm no healthcare expert. I don't know much about healthcare.
I was surprised when I moved here that - if I had sufficient insurance (my employer's plan), I could see pretty much any doctor I wanted. (good doc, shitty doc - if you go by 3rd party review sites or credential prestige, or reputation)
We had 3 hospital systems to choose from for my wife's pregnancy (only real experience we have with the system here). No difference in cost to us.
Doctors don't typically charge you more or less if they think a procedure is warranted.
Doctors don't think about cost-first when trying to treat patients.
And again - my cost point. (therapies are getting more and more expensive - which makes insurance more expensive)
That's it.
I expected a lot more of a market-based system in the U.S. when I moved here - and it's not a market based system.
That's it. That's my point.
I don't know what you're getting riled up about.
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@Copper said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
Do you pay more out of pocket for the best surgeon or ortho? Should you?
Why wouldn't you pay more for higher quality?
You do that for everything else, food, clothing, shelter, transportation, toys and games.
Have you ever explicitly paid more or less for specific physicians?
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Copper said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
Do you pay more out of pocket for the best surgeon or ortho? Should you?
Why wouldn't you pay more for higher quality?
You do that for everything else, food, clothing, shelter, transportation, toys and games.
Have you ever explicitly paid more or less for specific physicians?
Yes.
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@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Copper said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
Do you pay more out of pocket for the best surgeon or ortho? Should you?
Why wouldn't you pay more for higher quality?
You do that for everything else, food, clothing, shelter, transportation, toys and games.
Have you ever explicitly paid more or less for specific physicians?
Yes.
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@Jolly And what context was that in?
Were you insured? If so - why did you have to go beyond insurance?
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@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Jolly And what context was that in?
Were you insured? Why did you have to go beyond insurance?
Insured. Out of network. One of the top vascular guys in the South.
@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Jolly And what context was that in?
Were you insured? Why did you have to go beyond insurance?
Insured. Out of network. One of the top vascular guys in the South.
Right - which is the same thing that Copper said (kinda).
Outside of physicians being in/out of network, there's not really any reason to pay for a physician.
And I'm guessing that top guy is in certain other networks. (and that doesn't tell you if his network or your network are better/worse)
But the treatments he uses (drugs, therapies, procedures), I'm guessing are largely in line with other docs - and what he bill insurance is going to be similar to other docs.
You see what I'm getting at? You're not paying for a standard of care.
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@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Jolly And what context was that in?
Were you insured? Why did you have to go beyond insurance?
Insured. Out of network. One of the top vascular guys in the South.
Right - which is the same thing that Copper said (kinda).
Outside of physicians being in/out of network, there's not really any reason to pay for a physician.
And I'm guessing that top guy is in certain other networks. (and that doesn't tell you if his network or your network are better/worse)
But the treatments he uses (drugs, therapies, procedures), I'm guessing are largely in line with other docs - and what he bill insurance is going to be similar to other docs.
You see what I'm getting at? You're not paying for a standard of care.
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Jolly And what context was that in?
Were you insured? Why did you have to go beyond insurance?
Insured. Out of network. One of the top vascular guys in the South.
Right - which is the same thing that Copper said (kinda).
Outside of physicians being in/out of network, there's not really any reason to pay for a physician.
And I'm guessing that top guy is in certain other networks. (and that doesn't tell you if his network or your network are better/worse)
But the treatments he uses (drugs, therapies, procedures), I'm guessing are largely in line with other docs - and what he bill insurance is going to be similar to other docs.
You see what I'm getting at? You're not paying for a standard of care.
Do you understand that some docs are better than others?
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@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Jolly said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Jolly And what context was that in?
Were you insured? Why did you have to go beyond insurance?
Insured. Out of network. One of the top vascular guys in the South.
Right - which is the same thing that Copper said (kinda).
Outside of physicians being in/out of network, there's not really any reason to pay for a physician.
And I'm guessing that top guy is in certain other networks. (and that doesn't tell you if his network or your network are better/worse)
But the treatments he uses (drugs, therapies, procedures), I'm guessing are largely in line with other docs - and what he bill insurance is going to be similar to other docs.
You see what I'm getting at? You're not paying for a standard of care.
Do you understand that some docs are better than others?
@Jolly Ugh...
I know that, Jolly.
Let's simplify. Are there networks that only have top-tier doctors in them? (I don't think that's a thing, but let's assume it is)
Those insurance plans are going to be increasing just as much in cost, if not more, than other plans.
Why? Because of the underlying cost of therapies+aging population.
I don't think differences in doctor quality are a large cost increase driver. Do you agree / disagree?
There's lots of choices to be made in an insurance plan (deductible, network, caps, etc.) - but you're typically not buying a standard of care though. Am I wrong?
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I think I've figured this out. I haven't given the younger guys enough history.
In 1973 or so there were lots more insurance companies. Any insurance company could sell policies in any state. There were no Jo's to speak of, The democrats were in the process of creating them. Most all companies offered a product called Major Medical. Then were quite easy to follow - the policy was 80/20 until your out of pocket costs reached 1,000. No paying for office visits, no paying for prescriptions, until you had spent 1,000. Turn in your Dr visit and prescription receipts, they were added up and applied toward your 1,000 out of pocket. Once you'd paid out 1,000 dollars, the policy paid 100% of your medical bills. No networks, not HMO, just give the hospital your card and they sent the bill to the insurance company. You could go to any doctor you wanted to, any hospital you wanted to, no one told the doctor or the hospital what they could charge, competition kept everyone honest.
Then Edward Kennedy got the bright idea to set it up where the government could dictate things. The HMO Act of 1973 introduced HMOs, and all sorts of regulations. It got more and more intrusive over time, choices became limited, doctors and hospitals began getting told what they would be paid. Now here we are, maybe 2 choices if you're lucky, home that are incentivised to get their revenue by paying hospitals and doctors peanuts, a populace who goes along with it like trained seals.
