Trump to unveil healthcare plan
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@Axtremus said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
When (any point in recorded history) and where (anywhere on Earth) is/was healthcare totally devoid of government control?
Would you just shut the fuck up, DAMN I hate trying to deal with morons...
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@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Loki said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
I know one Mass Gen surgeon (through a friend). His rates don't change - but he only takes patients through referrals of doctors he has relationships with.
This guy is world renowned, but he doesn't get directly paid more for his services. (he gets paid more for other reasons)
Ask you surgeon friend whether he expects to continue to get paid 600k plus a year if the country goes single payer.
Ask him also what his income would be if his entire panel where Medicare.
Finally ask him where most his income comes from.
You can get the answers from him directly.
You’re working backwards from the premise that I’m some sort of socialized healthcare advocate.
I get great healthcare in the US. Better than Canada (though it was not bad).
My point is that there’s a mistaken assumption that market forces are somehow controlling cost in this country.
They are not. That’s a market failure.
Once again, you don't understand. There are no market forces controlling a fucking thing. That's the whole point. It can't be a market failure when government is stopping the market from working.
Jesus H. CRISP.
The existence of Obamacare (what's that like <10% of insurance) - doesn't dismantle the fundamentals of he insurance system that has been essentially the same for decades.
When did the US stop having a market based system, in your view?
DAMMIT!! it's like talking to a fucking monkey!!
Go back and reread my posts, genius. I've already told you.
Alright - well, I don't even know why I bother sometimes. I already know Glorious Leader's view on this - and so shall yours be.
So - I get it.
Obamacare bad! Get rid of it and everything will be hunky dory. State lines! Get rid of state lines!
That's the ticket.
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@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Loki said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
I know one Mass Gen surgeon (through a friend). His rates don't change - but he only takes patients through referrals of doctors he has relationships with.
This guy is world renowned, but he doesn't get directly paid more for his services. (he gets paid more for other reasons)
Ask you surgeon friend whether he expects to continue to get paid 600k plus a year if the country goes single payer.
Ask him also what his income would be if his entire panel where Medicare.
Finally ask him where most his income comes from.
You can get the answers from him directly.
You’re working backwards from the premise that I’m some sort of socialized healthcare advocate.
I get great healthcare in the US. Better than Canada (though it was not bad).
My point is that there’s a mistaken assumption that market forces are somehow controlling cost in this country.
They are not. That’s a market failure.
Once again, you don't understand. There are no market forces controlling a fucking thing. That's the whole point. It can't be a market failure when government is stopping the market from working.
Jesus H. CRISP.
The existence of Obamacare (what's that like <10% of insurance) - doesn't dismantle the fundamentals of he insurance system that has been essentially the same for decades.
When did the US stop having a market based system, in your view?
DAMMIT!! it's like talking to a fucking monkey!!
Go back and reread my posts, genius. I've already told you.
Alright - well, I don't even know why I bother sometimes. I already know Glorious Leader's view on this - and so shall yours be.
So - I get it.
No you don't. That's the problem. You are so convinced you're the smartest person in the room that you don't listen.
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@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Loki said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
I know one Mass Gen surgeon (through a friend). His rates don't change - but he only takes patients through referrals of doctors he has relationships with.
This guy is world renowned, but he doesn't get directly paid more for his services. (he gets paid more for other reasons)
Ask you surgeon friend whether he expects to continue to get paid 600k plus a year if the country goes single payer.
Ask him also what his income would be if his entire panel where Medicare.
Finally ask him where most his income comes from.
You can get the answers from him directly.
You’re working backwards from the premise that I’m some sort of socialized healthcare advocate.
I get great healthcare in the US. Better than Canada (though it was not bad).
My point is that there’s a mistaken assumption that market forces are somehow controlling cost in this country.
They are not. That’s a market failure.
Once again, you don't understand. There are no market forces controlling a fucking thing. That's the whole point. It can't be a market failure when government is stopping the market from working.
Jesus H. CRISP.
The existence of Obamacare (what's that like <10% of insurance) - doesn't dismantle the fundamentals of he insurance system that has been essentially the same for decades.
When did the US stop having a market based system, in your view?
DAMMIT!! it's like talking to a fucking monkey!!
Go back and reread my posts, genius. I've already told you.
Alright - well, I don't even know why I bother sometimes. I already know Glorious Leader's view on this - and so shall yours be.
So - I get it.
No you don't. That's the problem. You are so convinced you're the smartest person in the room that you don't listen.
I never said anything about being the smartest person in the room.
What I said was simple. More old people, more advanced and expensive therapies coming out everyday, old people use those therapies.
It's a pretty easy to understand recipe for cost increase. Do you disagree with that?
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@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
My point is that there’s a mistaken assumption that market forces are somehow controlling cost in this country.
They are not. That’s a market failure.
The market is just fine.
Obamacare is a very small part of the picture. And obamacare users participate in the market.
So does whoever gives you your insurance - go ask them. They will tell you they spend a lot of time watching the market.
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@Copper said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
My point is that there’s a mistaken assumption that market forces are somehow controlling cost in this country.
They are not. That’s a market failure.
The market is just fine.
Obamacare is a very small part of the picture. And obamacare users participate in the market.
So does whoever gives you your insurance - go ask them. They will tell you they spend a lot of time watching the market.
You should go talk to Larry, he says there's no market and thinks you're a moron. He's already explained it.
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@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Copper said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
My point is that there’s a mistaken assumption that market forces are somehow controlling cost in this country.
They are not. That’s a market failure.
The market is just fine.
Obamacare is a very small part of the picture. And obamacare users participate in the market.
So does whoever gives you your insurance - go ask them. They will tell you they spend a lot of time watching the market.
You should go talk to Larry, he says there's no market and thinks you're a moron. He's already explained it.
Go on.
Go ask your friends in HR if there is a market.
Even better tell them you don't want their handouts anymore. You want to participate in the market.
I guess you missed it above when I took the time to answer your question about expensive plans with high quality. Here is one I used: https://www.mdvip.com/
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@Copper said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@Copper said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
@xenon said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
My point is that there’s a mistaken assumption that market forces are somehow controlling cost in this country.
They are not. That’s a market failure.
The market is just fine.
Obamacare is a very small part of the picture. And obamacare users participate in the market.
So does whoever gives you your insurance - go ask them. They will tell you they spend a lot of time watching the market.
You should go talk to Larry, he says there's no market and thinks you're a moron. He's already explained it.
Go on.
Go ask your friends in HR if there is a market.
Even better tell them you don't want their handouts anymore. You want to participate in the market.
I guess you missed it above when I took the time to answer your question about expensive plans with high quality. Here is one I used: https://www.mdvip.com/
Sorry I didn't respond. But if I understood you correctly, you switched networks to follow a doctor who moved to another network.
You're not going to pay more or less within that network for doctors (presumably they're not all of the exact same quality in that network).
And I'm not saying there's not higher quality networks, or that there aren't plans with "better" coverage.
I'm saying - there's very little adjustment of the standard of care across doctors.
Would you agree that there is more treatment we can throw at patients now than 20 years ago? Wouldn't that increase cost? How is that controlled?
Who decides when enough treatment and enough dollars have been spent on a patient? Who is looking at the outcomes / $ spent on specific treatments?
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@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
Xenon fails to understand that there is a market AFTER government involvement, which is a different situation then the market that existed BEFORE government involvement.
I understood what you said. My question for you was, when did this fundamental shift from before government to after government happen?
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@Larry said in Trump to unveil healthcare plan:
Are you even aware that networks are a result of government interference stifling competition?
Sure - that may be the case. That's not inconsistent with what I'm saying.
There's no one in the system now - doctors, patients, insurers - who is controlling cost.
