ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis
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Sam Harris weighs in.
Link to videoI remember when "steel manning" was important to him. Now we get a version of Sam that characterizes his opposing tribe as believing that "carrying a weapon anywhere near federal law enforcement is a death sentence".
"If the Pretti killing had happened under Harris, the right would be shadowing every Border Patrol deployment with 500 guys with AR15s". Sure Sam. If a religious anti-immigration-enforcement agitator had FAFO'd with Border Patrol under Harris and gotten himself killed, the right would have gone ape shit over it. Uh huh.
Then the standard "omg what a bunch of pure hypocrites" about the fact that most people even on the right are calling the guy stupid for carrying a loaded gun into an agitation session. Sam is probably unaware of all the precedent for gun bans at protests which already exists at the state level, and which somehow has never been at the top of the NRA's list of things to complain about.
His reaction is indistinguishable from rhetoric he might use against a formal execution, rather than a heat of the moment panicky killing. The chaos of the situation and the split-second self-preservation panic as the result of someone yelling "gun" never enters into anything. His words are identical to those of someone reacting to Border Patrol having lined Pretti up against the wall and executing him.
Sam's self-excavated echo chamber of one sure has had some consequences.
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@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Sam's self-excavated echo chamber of one sure has had some consequences.
In what way? Has he upset his libertarian followers and folks will now boycott his podcasts?
@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Sam's self-excavated echo chamber of one sure has had some consequences.
In what way? Has he upset his libertarian followers and folks will now boycott his podcasts?
I'm not silly enough to think that bad arguments are bad for business, in the social commentary business. The consequence of his echo chamber of one are just what I described. The quality of his arguments has nosedived, at least IMO. I can imagine they have galvanized his monetizable base. And Sam really likes monetizable fans.
Education is extremely important.
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Not sure what "dated" has to do with it. He wasn't reporting the news, and the news he was commenting on seems to have been up to date with what we know now. It's just a window into what Sam thinks, for those who care. I think the trajectory of his quality of argumentation is remarkable. That was pure hyperbolic polemic.
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@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Sam's self-excavated echo chamber of one sure has had some consequences.
In what way? Has he upset his libertarian followers and folks will now boycott his podcasts?
I'm not silly enough to think that bad arguments are bad for business, in the social commentary business. The consequence of his echo chamber of one are just what I described. The quality of his arguments has nosedived, at least IMO. I can imagine they have galvanized his monetizable base. And Sam really likes monetizable fans.
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Well, you categorize people in very simple terms, and have missed, willingly or otherwise, my negative commentary on Tucker. You probably more listen to Phibes' characterization of my attitude towards Tucker than you do me. I know how easy it is to judge people based on who they have ever claimed to listen to or even partially resonate with. It's why people like you and Phibes never admit to respecting any public personality. It's the safe choice, especially for those who most freely use that cudgel of categorizing people and permanently attaching them to anybody they have said positive things about.
Education is extremely important.
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Well, you categorize people in very simple terms, and have missed, willingly or otherwise, my negative commentary on Tucker. You probably more listen to Phibes' characterization of my attitude towards Tucker than you do me. I know how easy it is to judge people based on who they have ever claimed to listen to or even partially resonate with. It's why people like you and Phibes never admit to respecting any public personality. It's the safe choice, especially for those who most freely use that cudgel of categorizing people and permanently attaching them to anybody they have said positive things about.
@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Well, you categorize people in very simple terms, and have missed, willingly or otherwise, my negative commentary on Tucker. You probably more listen to Phibes' characterization of my attitude towards Tucker than you do me. I know how easy it is to judge people based on who they have ever claimed to listen to or even partially resonate with. It's why people like you and Phibes never admit to respecting any public personality. It's the safe choice, especially for those who most freely use that cudgel of categorizing people and permanently attaching them to anybody they have said positive things about.
Hey, no need to bring me into your weird little ongoing marital spat.
And the fact that I prefer to spend my free time listening to light history podcasts rather than to these "personalities" you listen to doesn't mean I don't respect public personalities. I just don't happen to respect the ones you listen to.
Melvin Bragg, for example - he's fucking great. Admittedly, nobody over here has probably heard of him, but that's hardly my fault. Adam Maness is somebody else I really like - he's a jazz pianist and commentator. Sorry, not everything is politics.
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@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Well, you categorize people in very simple terms, and have missed, willingly or otherwise, my negative commentary on Tucker. You probably more listen to Phibes' characterization of my attitude towards Tucker than you do me. I know how easy it is to judge people based on who they have ever claimed to listen to or even partially resonate with. It's why people like you and Phibes never admit to respecting any public personality. It's the safe choice, especially for those who most freely use that cudgel of categorizing people and permanently attaching them to anybody they have said positive things about.
Hey, no need to bring me into your weird little ongoing marital spat.
And the fact that I prefer to spend my free time listening to light history podcasts rather than to these "personalities" you listen to doesn't mean I don't respect public personalities. I just don't happen to respect the ones you listen to.
Melvin Bragg, for example - he's fucking great. Admittedly, nobody over here has probably heard of him, but that's hardly my fault. Adam Maness is somebody else I really like - he's a jazz pianist and commentator. Sorry, not everything is politics.
@Doctor-Phibes said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Melvin Bragg, for example - he's fucking great.
'"Bragg married his first wife, Marie-Elisabeth Roche (b. 1939).[39] In 1965 they had a daughter, Marie-Elsa Bragg.[40] Roche was a French viscountess studying painting at Oxford.[12] In 1971, Roche died by suicide.[41] In an interview with The Guardian in 1998, Bragg said, "I could have done things which helped and I did things which harmed. So yes, I feel guilt, I feel remorse."
You call that a fuckin' great guy? I think his wife felt, "not so much!"
Flushing the toilet is like practicing the piano; you just cannot go too long without doing it.--Axtremus
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I have a question that I don’t think has been addressed. How are these protestors knowing where to gather? They are showing up at these sites where ICE is going to be conducting operations. How do they know this?
@LuFins-Dad said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
I have a question that I don’t think has been addressed. How are these protestors knowing where to gather? They are showing up at these sites where ICE is going to be conducting operations. How do they know this?
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Neighborhood groups have formed. One of the neighbors on our block held a meeting to sort through what to do. There are all kinds of informal ad hoc groups around the area. A friend attended a protest near one of the detention centers. Per her, there were a variety of groups there - not a massive centralized effort - more a bunch of small tribes.
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Neighborhood groups have formed. One of the neighbors on our block held a meeting to sort through what to do. There are all kinds of informal ad hoc groups around the area. A friend attended a protest near one of the detention centers. Per her, there were a variety of groups there - not a massive centralized effort - more a bunch of small tribes.
@kluurs said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Neighborhood groups have formed. One of the neighbors on our block held a meeting to sort through what to do. There are all kinds of informal ad hoc groups around the area. A friend attended a protest near one of the detention centers. Per her, there were a variety of groups there - not a massive centralized effort - more a bunch of small tribes.
Sounds pretty grassroot, pretty organic. Any whiff of outside "big money" driving these groups?
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@Doctor-Phibes said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Melvin Bragg, for example - he's fucking great.
'"Bragg married his first wife, Marie-Elisabeth Roche (b. 1939).[39] In 1965 they had a daughter, Marie-Elsa Bragg.[40] Roche was a French viscountess studying painting at Oxford.[12] In 1971, Roche died by suicide.[41] In an interview with The Guardian in 1998, Bragg said, "I could have done things which helped and I did things which harmed. So yes, I feel guilt, I feel remorse."
You call that a fuckin' great guy? I think his wife felt, "not so much!"
@Tom-K said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@Doctor-Phibes said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
Melvin Bragg, for example - he's fucking great.
'"Bragg married his first wife, Marie-Elisabeth Roche (b. 1939).[39] In 1965 they had a daughter, Marie-Elsa Bragg.[40] Roche was a French viscountess studying painting at Oxford.[12] In 1971, Roche died by suicide.[41] In an interview with The Guardian in 1998, Bragg said, "I could have done things which helped and I did things which harmed. So yes, I feel guilt, I feel remorse."
You call that a fuckin' great guy? I think his wife felt, "not so much!"
I was totally unaware of that. Another hero ruined. Thanks a bunch.
OK, how about that Jeff Bezos? He's a public figure and I bet he's a fantastic bunch of guys!
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@LuFins-Dad said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
I have a question that I don’t think has been addressed. How are these protestors knowing where to gather? They are showing up at these sites where ICE is going to be conducting operations. How do they know this?
@89th said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@LuFins-Dad said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
I have a question that I don’t think has been addressed. How are these protestors knowing where to gather? They are showing up at these sites where ICE is going to be conducting operations. How do they know this?
That still doesn’t explain how they are aware, that’s just medium that they share. Are there public records for warrants? Are there leaks from the agency or the courthouse m?
The Brad
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@89th said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@LuFins-Dad said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
I have a question that I don’t think has been addressed. How are these protestors knowing where to gather? They are showing up at these sites where ICE is going to be conducting operations. How do they know this?
That still doesn’t explain how they are aware, that’s just medium that they share. Are there public records for warrants? Are there leaks from the agency or the courthouse m?
@LuFins-Dad said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
That still doesn’t explain how they are aware, that’s just medium that they share. Are there public records for warrants? Are there leaks from the agency or the courthouse m?
LOL you think they have warrants? At least around here they ask where you are born based on your accent or skin color (many, many videos of this) and go to places where they know immigrants work like construction sites. They will grab someone, throw them in the car, and then drop them off miles away if they end up being a citizen. (videos of this too) Not making any of this up. How much is this the norm? I have no idea...
If warrants and due process were followed, I doubt you'd see any protests.
