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The New Coffee Room

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  3. The West Wing

The West Wing

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  • MikM Offline
    MikM Offline
    Mik
    wrote last edited by Mik
    #1

    Watched the first three episodes on a plane the other night. As current and brilliant as it was then. Probably the best TV series ever, certainly the best dialogue. I think I will binge the whole series.

    "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

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    • A Offline
      A Offline
      AndyD
      wrote last edited by
      #2

      Agreed, on my new year list to binge, along with House,and Inspector Montalbano.

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      • HoraceH Offline
        HoraceH Offline
        Horace
        wrote last edited by
        #3

        I'm in the camp that thinks that nobody actually talks like that. But in so many shows these days, impossibly quick and clever dialogue is the norm. It strikes me as too affected, and I find it a little irritating. But that said, I've never watched the West Wing. I only noticed the change in dialog style over the years, and based on my exhaustive research, it can be traced back to that show.

        Education is extremely important.

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        • HoraceH Offline
          HoraceH Offline
          Horace
          wrote last edited by
          #4

          @axtremus , here's Gemini's take.

          The short answer is no, The West Wing did not invent it, but it is widely credited with reviving and popularizing it for modern television.

          The specific style you are referring to is commonly called "Sorkin-esque" dialogue (after the show's creator, Aaron Sorkin) and is famously paired with a visual technique called the "Walk and Talk."

          Here is the breakdown of the style's true origins and its massive influence on later TV.

          1. The True Origin: Screwball Comedies

          Aaron Sorkin has openly admitted that he did not invent this rhythmic, rapid-fire banter. He borrowed it from the screwball comedies of the 1930s and 1940s.

          • The Blueprint: The most famous example is the 1940 film His Girl Friday (directed by Howard Hawks). If you watch it today, you will see the exact same DNA: hyper-articulate characters speaking in overlapping bursts.
          • The Technique: In standard TV scripts, characters usually wait for the other person to finish speaking. Sorkin (and the screwball directors before him) utilized "overlapping dialogue," where characters step on the end of each other's sentences to create a sense of urgency and high intelligence.

          2. The Innovation: The "Walk and Talk"

          While Sorkin wrote the words, the visual style was perfected by director Thomas Schlamme.
          Because the dialogue was so fast, standing still while saying it looked unnatural. Schlamme developed the "Walk and Talk"—long, continuous tracking shots where characters stride aggressively down hallways while exchanging dense information. This added a kinetic energy that tricked the audience into feeling the "rush" of the presidency, even if they didn't understand every policy detail being discussed.

          3. Shows That Copied or Were Influenced by It

          Before The West Wing, TV drama was generally slower and more expository. After its success, "smart people talking fast" became a dominant sub-genre.

          • Gilmore Girls (2000–2007): Creator Amy Sherman-Palladino adopted the screwball pace for a family dramedy. Her scripts were famously 80 pages long (standard one-hour scripts are roughly 50 pages) because the characters spoke so quickly.
          • Scandal (2012–2018): Shonda Rhimes’ shows (including Grey's Anatomy) utilize a similar cadence where characters deliver high-speed, hyper-articulate monologues, often while walking rapidly through corridors.
          • Suits (2011–2019): This show is a direct descendant of the Sorkin style. The characters are all hyper-competent, speak almost exclusively in witty repartee, and rarely speak like normal humans.
          • Billions: Features characters who speak in dense, pop-culture-laden metaphors at high speed.
          • Veep: While it is a comedy (and a satire of The West Wing's idealism), it uses the same "Walk and Talk" structure and rapid-fire insults, effectively taking the Sorkin style and stripping out the politeness.

          Verdict: The West Wing took a style from 1940s movies and proved it could work on 1990s television, creating a template that shows like Suits and Scandal are still using today.

          Education is extremely important.

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          • A Offline
            A Offline
            AndyD
            wrote last edited by
            #5

            I was going to say some Bogart film dialogue might be a forerunner

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            • MikM Offline
              MikM Offline
              Mik
              wrote last edited by
              #6

              I think it set the ambiance of the place - fast paced, high stress, very smart people.

              "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

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              • 89th8 Offline
                89th8 Offline
                89th
                wrote last edited by
                #7

                Not to pile on the bandwagon, but it's on my list to binge as well. Maybe I'll start it next week when I have to fly to DC again.

                @andyd do you mean House or House of Cards? The latter I heard is amazing, but of course falls apart when Spacey is canceled. Not sure I want to invest time in a show that ends like that.

                A 1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote last edited by
                  #8

                  Never seen an episode.

                  The whole reason we call them illegal aliens is because they’re subject to our laws.

                  MikM 1 Reply Last reply
                  • 89th8 Offline
                    89th8 Offline
                    89th
                    wrote last edited by
                    #9

                    Maybe we'll have a new Trump-based series called The East Wing and then the first episode is just it being torn down followed by 45 minutes of a spinning trump gold coin.

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                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                      Never seen an episode.

                      MikM Offline
                      MikM Offline
                      Mik
                      wrote last edited by
                      #10

                      @jon-nyc said in The West Wing:

                      Never seen an episode.

                      You really should.

                      "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

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                      • 89th8 89th

                        Not to pile on the bandwagon, but it's on my list to binge as well. Maybe I'll start it next week when I have to fly to DC again.

                        @andyd do you mean House or House of Cards? The latter I heard is amazing, but of course falls apart when Spacey is canceled. Not sure I want to invest time in a show that ends like that.

                        A Offline
                        A Offline
                        AndyD
                        wrote last edited by AndyD
                        #11

                        @89th
                        House, the Doctor. One of my daughters is currently binging it and I got sucked into a couple of episodes.

                        I'd add I bought the West Wing dvd set, it's that good.
                        House of Cards, I preferred the UK version.

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                        • 89th8 Offline
                          89th8 Offline
                          89th
                          wrote last edited by
                          #12

                          @andyd I see clips from House, it always seems interesting. Don't google a picture of what he looks like today, I believe he has aged or become ill or something. Unless it was fake, it was a bit sad. Anyway... I've always had a bit of an urge to binge ER one day, it seems like a show that really changed TV to an extent.

                          If anyone cares, and I know @george-k would... my favorite TV show of all time is The Shield. I plan to binge The Wire one day too, I've heard that it's ranked (along with Breaking Bad) as the best series of all.

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