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@Horace said in Shutdown Length:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Shutdown Length:
@Horace said in Shutdown Length:
Neville Chamberlain wanted to give in to Hitler.
Actually, Neville Chamberlain declared war on Hitler
Oh. I thought he was used as a universal cautionary tale against appeasement of bad guys. But in a dunkaholics anonymous meeting, he’s the guy who declared war on the bad guys
Not a universal cautionary tale but a simplistic interpretation of the historical facts that led to the Munich Agreement. Suffice to say that Chamberlain was left with a choice between dealing with Hitler alone as France would not involve itself militarily with Britain to stop the latter from invading Czechoslovakia, or inviting Stalin and the Red Army into Central Europe to stop Hitler that would inevitably lead to an even greater predicament of how to get Stalin and the Red Army out of the heart Europe once Hitler was pacified. Chamberlain chose the only rational option open to him under the circumstances.
And no, this thesis did not arise from a dunkaholics anonymous meeting.
@Renauda said in Shutdown Length:
@Horace said in Shutdown Length:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Shutdown Length:
@Horace said in Shutdown Length:
Neville Chamberlain wanted to give in to Hitler.
Actually, Neville Chamberlain declared war on Hitler
Oh. I thought he was used as a universal cautionary tale against appeasement of bad guys. But in a dunkaholics anonymous meeting, he’s the guy who declared war on the bad guys
Not a universal cautionary tale but a simplistic interpretation of the historical facts that led to the Munich Agreement. Suffice to say that Chamberlain was left with a choice between dealing with Hitler alone as France would not involve itself militarily with Britain to stop the latter from invading Czechoslovakia, or inviting Stalin and the Red Army into Central Europe to stop Hitler that would inevitably lead to an even greater predicament of how to get Stalin and the Red Army out of the heart Europe once Hitler was pacified. Chamberlain chose the only rational option open to him under the circumstances.
And no, this thesis did not arise from a dunkaholics anonymous meeting.
Yes, a quick search for mentions of Chamberlain on this board establish that you and Phibes are both acquainted with the historical accounts that push back against Chamberlain's bad rap.
Mr NYC on the other hand is yet another vector of the historical misinformation, which my parody of a bluesky poster unfortunately fell for. Neither you nor Phibes pushed back on that one, but for all dunks there is a time and place.
Education is extremely important.
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@Renauda said in Shutdown Length:
@Horace said in Shutdown Length:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Shutdown Length:
@Horace said in Shutdown Length:
Neville Chamberlain wanted to give in to Hitler.
Actually, Neville Chamberlain declared war on Hitler
Oh. I thought he was used as a universal cautionary tale against appeasement of bad guys. But in a dunkaholics anonymous meeting, he’s the guy who declared war on the bad guys
Not a universal cautionary tale but a simplistic interpretation of the historical facts that led to the Munich Agreement. Suffice to say that Chamberlain was left with a choice between dealing with Hitler alone as France would not involve itself militarily with Britain to stop the latter from invading Czechoslovakia, or inviting Stalin and the Red Army into Central Europe to stop Hitler that would inevitably lead to an even greater predicament of how to get Stalin and the Red Army out of the heart Europe once Hitler was pacified. Chamberlain chose the only rational option open to him under the circumstances.
And no, this thesis did not arise from a dunkaholics anonymous meeting.
Yes, a quick search for mentions of Chamberlain on this board establish that you and Phibes are both acquainted with the historical accounts that push back against Chamberlain's bad rap.
Mr NYC on the other hand is yet another vector of the historical misinformation, which my parody of a bluesky poster unfortunately fell for. Neither you nor Phibes pushed back on that one, but for all dunks there is a time and place.
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Churchill was a Francophile and to the very end always believed France would do the right thing. Chamberlain on the other hand was a realist and knew France, despite the size and strength of its army, would not lift a finger to come to Czechoslovakia’s aid. The only other continental army remaining other than Germany’s, was the Red Army. Stalin was most willing to intervene on the side of Czechoslovakia provided either France or Britain would also mobilize against the Nazis. While the Royal Navy could have sailed against the kriegsmarine there was no British army to speak of in 1938 to even deploy onto the continent let alone march on Germany from the west.
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The Red Army sure seems to have a hard time beating up the little guy when they want to take over their country. ukraine is Finland v2. If i am Nato i want both of them on my team. Tough mofos.
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@Renauda said in Shutdown Length:
@Horace said in Shutdown Length:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Shutdown Length:
@Horace said in Shutdown Length:
Neville Chamberlain wanted to give in to Hitler.
Actually, Neville Chamberlain declared war on Hitler
Oh. I thought he was used as a universal cautionary tale against appeasement of bad guys. But in a dunkaholics anonymous meeting, he’s the guy who declared war on the bad guys
Not a universal cautionary tale but a simplistic interpretation of the historical facts that led to the Munich Agreement. Suffice to say that Chamberlain was left with a choice between dealing with Hitler alone as France would not involve itself militarily with Britain to stop the latter from invading Czechoslovakia, or inviting Stalin and the Red Army into Central Europe to stop Hitler that would inevitably lead to an even greater predicament of how to get Stalin and the Red Army out of the heart Europe once Hitler was pacified. Chamberlain chose the only rational option open to him under the circumstances.
And no, this thesis did not arise from a dunkaholics anonymous meeting.
Yes, a quick search for mentions of Chamberlain on this board establish that you and Phibes are both acquainted with the historical accounts that push back against Chamberlain's bad rap.
Mr NYC on the other hand is yet another vector of the historical misinformation, which my parody of a bluesky poster unfortunately fell for. Neither you nor Phibes pushed back on that one, but for all dunks there is a time and place.
@Horace said in Shutdown Length:
which my parody of a bluesky poster unfortunately fell for. Neither you nor Phibes pushed back on that one, but for all dunks there is a time and place.
I have literally never read a single Bluesky post, so the parody went over my head unnoticed.
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As Churchill so memorably said he chose dishonor but got war anyway. Not sure how to save his reputation from that.
@jon-nyc said in Shutdown Length:
As Churchill so memorably said he chose dishonor but got war anyway. Not sure how to save his reputation from that.
IMHO Ramsey McDonald and Stanley Baldwin should bear more responsibility for the mess than Chamberlain. Both McDonald and Baldwin seem to be mostly forgotten in these discussions nowadays, but Chamberlain really inherited the shit sandwich that they had carefully put together whilst desperately trying to avoid conflict in the 30's.
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How did Germany get away without a peep from the WWI winners, building up that military machine violating the terms of armistice? It couldnt have been a mystery. Those films always make my jaw drop with the size of their army parading down the streets
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Had the French army simply begun mobilization when the Germans marched into the Ruhr they would have retreated with their tail between their legs and there’s a strong possibility it would have been the end of Hitler.
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Had the French army simply begun mobilization when the Germans marched into the Ruhr they would have retreated with their tail between their legs and there’s a strong possibility it would have been the end of Hitler.
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Ah, the rose tented mirrored sunglasses of historical after-knowledge.
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Indeed, if only France had done something in 1938. Together with the USSR Hitler would have been preempted from attacking Czechoslovakia and Josef Stalin would have obtained the Czech armaments industry (a prize Hitler desperately needed for his war plans) and established Soviet power in the middle of Europe without so much as firing a shot at anyone other than the Poles whose territory he would have had to cross to get to Czechoslovakia.
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If only they hadn't fucked everything up in 1919 and helped Germany recover along with the rest of Europe....Hitler could have spent his latter years painting people's bedrooms.
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If only they hadn't fucked everything up in 1919 and helped Germany recover along with the rest of Europe....Hitler could have spent his latter years painting people's bedrooms.
Yes I think we should have a good dunk on David Lloyd George, George Clemenceau and above all, Woodrow Wilson. While at it we can also dunk on Joseph P. Kennedy because we can.
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Don't forget George Washington. If he hadn't bankrupted the French monarchy there wouldn't have been a revolution, and we'd all be happily sipping tea in Boston.
