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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Trumpenomics

Trumpenomics

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  • JollyJ Jolly

    @89th said in Trumpenomics:

    The term paleoconservative (is new to me) but certainly is a deviation from traditional and/or neoconservatives.

    Anyway, the market is absolutely ripe for a moderate to come in that is fiscally conservative, moderately social, judiciously conservative, free market, pragmatic regulations, good at communications, and restores respect/honesty to the office.... would this be a new political party, or will one just pounce on the opportunity? I'd imagine the left will find someone reasonable (not AOC, not bernie, not gavin....well maybe gavin) that tries to fit into that moderate mold that'll win over the country, at least enough to win office. Oh... and if they can shore up some of the latino vote, then we might see them in power for a while.

    Trump is absolutely shooting the GOP in the foot, per Mik's note about 2026 earlier...

    Generic question: Is what is good for the stock market the same thing as what is good for the country?

    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote last edited by
    #700

    @Jolly said in Trumpenomics:

    @89th said in Trumpenomics:

    The term paleoconservative (is new to me) but certainly is a deviation from traditional and/or neoconservatives.

    Anyway, the market is absolutely ripe for a moderate to come in that is fiscally conservative, moderately social, judiciously conservative, free market, pragmatic regulations, good at communications, and restores respect/honesty to the office.... would this be a new political party, or will one just pounce on the opportunity? I'd imagine the left will find someone reasonable (not AOC, not bernie, not gavin....well maybe gavin) that tries to fit into that moderate mold that'll win over the country, at least enough to win office. Oh... and if they can shore up some of the latino vote, then we might see them in power for a while.

    Trump is absolutely shooting the GOP in the foot, per Mik's note about 2026 earlier...

    Generic question: Is what is good for the stock market the same thing as what is good for the country?

    This is true even the minority of the country with no direct exposure to the market. The market is a measure of health of the companies that employ a lot of people who may not own any stock.

    You were warned.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • JollyJ Offline
      JollyJ Offline
      Jolly
      wrote last edited by
      #701

      Was WW2 good or bad for the U.S.?

      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

      1 Reply Last reply
      • Doctor PhibesD Offline
        Doctor PhibesD Offline
        Doctor Phibes
        wrote last edited by Doctor Phibes
        #702

        Too soon to tell.

        Was the War of Western Aggression Independence good or bad for the U.S.?

        I was only joking

        JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
        • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

          Too soon to tell.

          Was the War of Western Aggression Independence good or bad for the U.S.?

          JollyJ Offline
          JollyJ Offline
          Jolly
          wrote last edited by
          #703

          @Doctor-Phibes said in Trumpenomics:

          Too soon to tell.

          Was the War of Western Aggression Independence good or bad for the U.S.?

          Was there an American stock market at the time?

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote last edited by
            #704

            Not until 1792.

            You were warned.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • JollyJ Jolly

              @Doctor-Phibes said in Trumpenomics:

              Too soon to tell.

              Was the War of Western Aggression Independence good or bad for the U.S.?

              Was there an American stock market at the time?

              HoraceH Online
              HoraceH Online
              Horace
              wrote last edited by
              #705

              @Jolly said in Trumpenomics:

              @Doctor-Phibes said in Trumpenomics:

              Too soon to tell.

              Was the War of Western Aggression Independence good or bad for the U.S.?

              Was there an American stock market at the time?

              Part of your lore here is that second career you had helping indigents with financial stuff, and all of that surely involved the stock market. But now you're a newborn babe when it comes to questions about whether the stock market actually matters to real America.

              Education is extremely important.

              Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
              • HoraceH Horace

                @Jolly said in Trumpenomics:

                @Doctor-Phibes said in Trumpenomics:

                Too soon to tell.

                Was the War of Western Aggression Independence good or bad for the U.S.?

                Was there an American stock market at the time?

                Part of your lore here is that second career you had helping indigents with financial stuff, and all of that surely involved the stock market. But now you're a newborn babe when it comes to questions about whether the stock market actually matters to real America.

                Doctor PhibesD Offline
                Doctor PhibesD Offline
                Doctor Phibes
                wrote last edited by Doctor Phibes
                #706

                @Horace said in Trumpenomics:

                @Jolly said in Trumpenomics:

                @Doctor-Phibes said in Trumpenomics:

                Too soon to tell.

                Was the War of Western Aggression Independence good or bad for the U.S.?

                Was there an American stock market at the time?

                Part of your lore here is that second career you had helping indigents with financial stuff, and all of that surely involved the stock market. But now you're a newborn babe when it comes to questions about whether the stock market actually matters to real America.

                Honestly, is that even a serious question? Does anybody ask whether a highway network is good for the U.S. because after all things were so much better back in the Victorian age?

                Obviously, the only reason we're hearing the question is because of who's crashed the market. If it was a Democrat, it would be a completely different story.

                I was only joking

                1 Reply Last reply
                • JollyJ Offline
                  JollyJ Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote last edited by Jolly
                  #707

                  Just musing...The market (Dow) was losing money in the prelude to WW2 (approx 1938) and actually fell below those levels in 1942. It did not return to the 1939 level, until 1947. Starting in the 1950's, people made money in the market, with a bit of a dip in the 58 recession.

                  My point is that WW2 was good for America, despite the loss and carnage of war at a size never seen before. America emerged as the Leader of the Free World, the war lifted thousands out of poverty and enlarged the middle class, advanced civil rights and the war set off an economic boom and a baby boom.

                  So, you have the juxtaposition of a market that really did not like WW2, but the war on many levels had a positive effect upon the country.

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                    Doctor PhibesD Offline
                    Doctor Phibes
                    wrote last edited by Doctor Phibes
                    #708

                    That's quite a socialistic viewpoint. Or maybe not. Society's benefit over individual loss?

                    Who knows what would have happened to the USA if WW2 hadn't happened?

                    I was only joking

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • X Online
                      X Online
                      xenon
                      wrote last edited by
                      #709

                      Alright - so step 1, stock market down. Step 2 - destroy a large portion of all other major countries. Step 3 - profit.

                      On to step 2, I guess?

                      LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                      • X xenon

                        Alright - so step 1, stock market down. Step 2 - destroy a large portion of all other major countries. Step 3 - profit.

                        On to step 2, I guess?

                        LuFins DadL Offline
                        LuFins DadL Offline
                        LuFins Dad
                        wrote last edited by
                        #710

                        @xenon said in Trumpenomics:

                        Alright - so step 1, stock market down. Step 2 - destroy a large portion of all other major countries. Step 3 - profit.

                        On to step 2, I guess?

                        Underwear Gnomes?

                        The Brad

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • HoraceH Online
                          HoraceH Online
                          Horace
                          wrote last edited by
                          #711

                          Trump's most imbecilic trade advisors, Navarro and Lutnik, each called out the fact that large tech stocks were the main reason the stock market was doing so well. This was presented as a bad thing. Taking down America's most successful public companies may not be the goal, but it is certainly an acceptable loss, to the people behind the policies. But I remain cautiously confident that Trump does not want to be known for all those great and famous American companies getting clobbered. Lutnik and Navarro don't care, but I'm guessing that Trump does. Of course, even if Trump cares, his abject insanity regarding trade policies may prevent him from doing the right things to keep those companies healthy. He still thinks IPhones can be made in America.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote last edited by jon-nyc
                            #712

                            I agree he doesn’t want to be known as the guy that destroyed the economy. I think the problem is he thinks these tariffs really will usher in a new era of American prosperity and that both the market and economic experts are just wrong.

                            You were warned.

                            JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                            • taiwan_girlT Offline
                              taiwan_girlT Offline
                              taiwan_girl
                              wrote last edited by
                              #713

                              Unfortunately, even though I am not an economist, I pretty sure it is not possible to increase labor costs by 10X or so and be able to sell the product (for example iPhone) for the same or lower price. LOL

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • X Online
                                X Online
                                xenon
                                wrote last edited by xenon
                                #714

                                It’s not even particularly desirable. An iPhone sells for $1000, costs about $400 to make and about $100 of that value is driven by China.

                                Would we rather have Huawei in America with $100 going to American manufacturing (just assume that’s possible) - or the current state of an American company (Apple) with $100 going to China?

                                The way Trump talks, he’d take the former.

                                HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                • X xenon

                                  It’s not even particularly desirable. An iPhone sells for $1000, costs about $400 to make and about $100 of that value is driven by China.

                                  Would we rather have Huawei in America with $100 going to American manufacturing (just assume that’s possible) - or the current state of an American company (Apple) with $100 going to China?

                                  The way Trump talks, he’d take the former.

                                  HoraceH Online
                                  HoraceH Online
                                  Horace
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #715

                                  @xenon said in Trumpenomics:

                                  It’s not even particularly desirable.

                                  No, it's all an idiotic fever dream, cooked up by maybe the only two economists in the world who think tariffs cause prosperity, and the intuitions of Trump.

                                  Education is extremely important.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • LuFins DadL Offline
                                    LuFins DadL Offline
                                    LuFins Dad
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #716

                                    The simple act of building the factories makes it impossible. You can reshore some critical manufacturing capabilities, but it will need some subsidizing and a lot of deregulation to get the factories up and running, and it will still require competition. While I still think American Car manufacturing is pretty piss poor, the Japanese competition did force them to get a little better…

                                    The Brad

                                    JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #717

                                      Indeed they did. I had an 86 ford tempo in 1990, already a cheap used car by then, that almost bankrupted me with repair bills.

                                      You were warned.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                        I agree he doesn’t want to be known as the guy that destroyed the economy. I think the problem is he thinks these tariffs really will usher in a new era of American prosperity and that both the market and economic experts are just wrong.

                                        JollyJ Offline
                                        JollyJ Offline
                                        Jolly
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #718

                                        @jon-nyc said in Trumpenomics:

                                        I agree he doesn’t want to be known as the guy that destroyed the economy. I think the problem is he thinks these tariffs really will usher in a new era of American prosperity and that both the market and economic experts are just wrong.

                                        Been saying he's channeling McKinley.

                                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                                          The simple act of building the factories makes it impossible. You can reshore some critical manufacturing capabilities, but it will need some subsidizing and a lot of deregulation to get the factories up and running, and it will still require competition. While I still think American Car manufacturing is pretty piss poor, the Japanese competition did force them to get a little better…

                                          JollyJ Offline
                                          JollyJ Offline
                                          Jolly
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #719

                                          @LuFins-Dad said in Trumpenomics:

                                          The simple act of building the factories makes it impossible. You can reshore some critical manufacturing capabilities, but it will need some subsidizing and a lot of deregulation to get the factories up and running, and it will still require competition. While I still think American Car manufacturing is pretty piss poor, the Japanese competition did force them to get a little better…

                                          Trump Admin is claiming $7T investment coming to America. I'm sure that's inflated, but look at the marching orders that went to the agencies about rules that have made up out of whole cloth. Washington should soon be in a deregulation frenzy.

                                          Less regulation burdens, no tariffs, a Navy ship building program, etc. Maybe the world gets the hint we're in the business for business?

                                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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