Elon Rift Begins

Jolly

Oh, if it's anything involving Trump, it the most gawd-awful scenario imaginable, unless you include Elon dressed in a SS uniform. People, you're crazy as fuck.

We're doing something for the first time. There will be starts, stops, corrections and revisions. And if you don't think that happens in any organization undergoing massive change, you're lying, because you know better.

I'm interested as to where we wind up and how much we successfully cut.

LuFins Dad

I’m all for burning it down. We’ve gotten this far, let’s get government back to what it’s intended role should be.

? Offline

@89th I appreciate your appreciation.

But, it's a bit early in our relationship for such affection.

Jolly

@LuFins-Dad said in Elon Rift Begins:

I’m all for burning it down. We’ve gotten this far, let’s get government back to what it’s intended role should be.

But if we do that, veterans, children and seniors will all die.

Mik

Slowly. From starvation.

Axtremus

@LuFins-Dad said in Elon Rift Begins:

... let’s get government back to what it’s intended role should be.

Administrator of Social Security and Medicare programs, right?

Srsly, what's the government's "intended role"? It's not to do non-profit things that private non-profits cannot do because private non-profits lack scale, or to do unprofitable things that private for-profits are unwilling to do because these things are unprofitable, is it?

Jolly

@Axtremus said in Elon Rift Begins:

@LuFins-Dad said in Elon Rift Begins:

... let’s get government back to what it’s intended role should be.

Administrator of Social Security and Medicare programs, right?

Srsly, what's the government's "intended role"? It's not to do non-profit things that private non-profits cannot do because private non-profit lack scale, or to do unprofitable things that private for-profits are unwilling to do because these things are unprofitable, is it?

What is the role of the Federal government?

Defend the country, deliver the mail, enforce the Constitution and leave people alone, so that they may pursue happiness.

That's very simplified, but true at its core.

jon-nyc

So you don’t want Medicare at 65? What do you think private insurance would cost you, if you can get it?

Jolly

@jon-nyc said in Elon Rift Begins:

So you don’t want Medicare at 65? What do you think private insurance would cost you, if you can get it?

I think Medicare and Medicaid fueled the expansion of the Medical Industrial Complex. It led to high technology, but also to overbuilding and high costs.

People didn't die in the streets before 1964. Health insurance primarily centered on catastrophic health policies and people paid for smaller bills such as office visits out of pocket. Your medical care was through your family physician and specialists were used as needed. In those days, there weren't million dollar practices...Doctors lived in nice homes and drove Buicks, not usually Cadillacs and Mercedes. Indigent care in my state was rendered through a robust Charity Hospital system tied closely with LSU and Tulane Medical Schools.

It wasn't Shangri-la, but it also wasn't as awful as sometimes portrayed.

Can we go back to that? No, we passed that point long ago. But we can do better.

LuFins Dad

@jon-nyc said in Elon Rift Begins:

So you don’t want Medicare at 65? What do you think private insurance would cost you, if you can get it?

I asked Grok to calculate the return if instead of paying ~13% FICA taxes, the money was invested into a fund that performed exactly the same as the DOW.

If $190,000 in total FICA contributions (employee + employer) from 1984 to 2024 were invested annually in a fund tracking the DJIA with a 10.5% annualized total return, the fund’s value by the end of 2024 would be approximately $2.35 million, with a range of $2.2 million to $2.5 million depending on exact contribution totals.

Average Medicare recipient over 65 uses $22K per year today in total. Max annual SS benefit today is ~ $62K. Just buy an Annual T-Bill at retirement and the interest alone would cover more than your FICA Benefits pay on an annual basis and without even drawing down the principal.

jon-nyc

Medicare is 2.9% not 13%

And did you do that? Did you put 13% of your income in stocks since you were 16?

Axtremus

Maybe we are being too kind to worry about the post-retirement wellbeing of those too irresponsible or too undisciplined to constantly invest at least a tenth of their income in the stock market. Maybe we, the responsible and disciplined lot, should just stay in walled communities and let the irresponsible, undisciplined lot rot outside.

Love thy neighbors, you say? We just defined those outside the wall as not neighbors.

Bankrupted by some medical emergencies or chronic illness or accidents? Well you should have bought sufficient insurance for those things, for that would be the response thing to do.

Insurance companies went insolvent and cannot pay your legitimate claims? Do not expect government backstop. You should have been responsible and disciplined enough to only buy realistically rated policies from solidly funded insurers.

LuFins Dad

@jon-nyc said in Elon Rift Begins:

Medicare is 2.9% not 13%

And did you do that? Did you put 13% of your income in stocks since you were 16?

I just went with FICA as a whole. Notice that I also brought up Social Security Max Benefit?

And I wasn’t calculating for myself, I was calculating for a person retiring this year. If they were 65, the 40 years of savings would have started at age 25.

Jolly

@Axtremus said in Elon Rift Begins:

Maybe we are being too kind to worry about the post-retirement wellbeing of those too irresponsible or too undisciplined to constantly invest at least a tenth of their income in the stock market. Maybe we, the responsible and disciplined lot, should just stay in walled communities and let the irresponsible, undisciplined lot rot outside.

Love thy neighbors, you say? We just defined those outside the wall as not neighbors.

Bankrupted by some medical emergencies or chronic illness or accidents? Well you should have bought sufficient insurance for those things, for that would be the response thing to do.

Insurance companies went insolvent and cannot pay your legitimate claims? Do not expect government backstop. You should have been responsible and disciplined enough to only buy realistically rated policies from solidly funded insurers.

A complete nanny state is best? I dunno, seems like we were still the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave before 1964.

Let me tell you what I do see...Because of Medicaid and EMTALA, ED's are choked with patients who have "the card" and a case of the sniffles. That cost money for staffing and physical space. Because of the Medicaid card, many employers will not offer any kind of health benefits to lower paid workers, because they don't have to do that to attract labor.

So Medicaid can be a double-edged sword in some cases.

jon-nyc

Is there an income limit for Medicaid or is it an asset limit?

LuFins Dad

@jon-nyc said in Elon Rift Begins:

Is there an income limit for Medicaid or is it an asset limit?

Medicaid? Yes. Medicare, no, but parts B and D base their premiums on your income.

jon-nyc

I’m just wondering what kind of job you can have and still qualify for Medicaid. I’m guessing it would have to be part time

89th

The New Coffee Room

Elon Rift Begins