Actions Have Consequences
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But maybe Milley was wrong about Trump. Just as General "Mad Dog" Mattis (selected by Trump) was wrong by agreeing with Milley's assessment of Trump, as was General John Kelly (selected by Trump) and General McMaster (selected by Trump), and General McChrystal, and Admiral McRaven, and Admiral Mike Mullen... these are the top brass of the top brass in the military, but yes... they're all just suffering from TDS.
@89th said in Actions Have Consequences:
But maybe Milley was wrong about Trump. Just as General "Mad Dog" Mattis (selected by Trump) was wrong by agreeing with Milley's assessment of Trump, as was General John Kelly (selected by Trump) and General McMaster (selected by Trump), and General McChrystal, and Admiral McRaven, and Admiral Mike Mullen... these are the top brass of the top brass in the military, but yes... they're all just suffering from TDS.
I don't give a flying fuck what they suffering from or not suffering from. Do your job or resign. If you think Trump is nuts, initiate the Constitutional procedure to have him removed.
Anything less undermines civilian control of the military. Now, use your brain for a second and consider what you have as that camel's nose comes under the tent...
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Milley drafted his resignation letter but thought it was his duty to protect the country from within. I can understand why what he did had consequences, as he fully knew as he stated... but China didn't attack in January 2021 did they? Ok cheap question, that's non-evidence, but what is evidence are all of the top military brass agreeing with Milley, that is not a coincidence. Milley can't initiate the 25th amendment either. You just don't like him because he did this to your guy, but if he did it to a barely conscious Biden, you'd be saying he did his duty to the country.
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@Horace said in Actions Have Consequences:
@89th said in Actions Have Consequences:
Yeah. Unless there's more to the story that I'm missing, Milley saw the chaos from a President refusing to accept his election loss, an assault on the Capitol, and the Chinese getting intel that Trump was thinking about a surprise attack so he contacted his counterpart over there to tell them to chill, everything will be fine. He said he was fine with the consequences of his actions as he saw Trump's mental state as being unstable. He'd do the same thing if it was Biden too, except Biden would purge him from the halls of the Pentagon because his feelings were hurt.
I hope the investigation lays bare the precise reasons Milley had for breaking the chain of command and advertising to the Chinese that he's willing to take sides against the American commander in chief, should push come to shove. There should probably be really, really good reasons for that, beyond culturally inhaled TDS. But I suspect there will not be really, really good reasons.
You may very well be right. I don't exactly have the biggest faith in an investigation...do you really think if the conclusion that "Milley was totally justified in not trusting Trump", that Trump would allow it to be published? Again, Trump had Milley's portrait at the Pentagon removed, the wall spackled, and painted... because his feelings were hurt.
@89th said in Actions Have Consequences:
@Horace said in Actions Have Consequences:
@89th said in Actions Have Consequences:
Yeah. Unless there's more to the story that I'm missing, Milley saw the chaos from a President refusing to accept his election loss, an assault on the Capitol, and the Chinese getting intel that Trump was thinking about a surprise attack so he contacted his counterpart over there to tell them to chill, everything will be fine. He said he was fine with the consequences of his actions as he saw Trump's mental state as being unstable. He'd do the same thing if it was Biden too, except Biden would purge him from the halls of the Pentagon because his feelings were hurt.
I hope the investigation lays bare the precise reasons Milley had for breaking the chain of command and advertising to the Chinese that he's willing to take sides against the American commander in chief, should push come to shove. There should probably be really, really good reasons for that, beyond culturally inhaled TDS. But I suspect there will not be really, really good reasons.
You may very well be right. I don't exactly have the biggest faith in an investigation...do you really think if the conclusion that "Milley was totally justified in not trusting Trump", that Trump would allow it to be published? Again, Trump had Milley's portrait at the Pentagon removed, the wall spackled, and painted... because his feelings were hurt.
I'd be happy to just hear him speak in his own defense about why he thought the threat of Trump dropping nukes on China was imminent and serious enough to advertise to China just how unhinged he believes his Commander in Chief to be, and how he is willing to take sides against him should the situation demand it. I would very much like to hear his justification for that. Because from my side, it's smelling very much like the moral panic of a mediocre mind.
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Not sure it was about dropping nukes, but that the Chinese had intel that the US was considering a surprise kinetic action and he wanted to assure his counterpart that the intel was false. Honestly, before all this I presumed diplomats already did this back channel chatter... in fact, I know they do. But perhaps it's different from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.
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@89th said in Actions Have Consequences:
Yeah. Unless there's more to the story that I'm missing, Milley saw the chaos from a President refusing to accept his election loss, an assault on the Capitol, and the Chinese getting intel that Trump was thinking about a surprise attack so he contacted his counterpart over there to tell them to chill, everything will be fine. He said he was fine with the consequences of his actions as he saw Trump's mental state as being unstable. He'd do the same thing if it was Biden too, except Biden would purge him from the halls of the Pentagon because his feelings were hurt.
Milley is a soldier, subject to the chain of command the UCMJ. There is no excuse for actively trying to undermine your commanding officer, other than a refusal of orders as I have talked about previously.
What do you think Milley would have done if a captain under his command pulled similar crap to what he did?
Patton? Patton would have offered you a cigarette before having you shot.
@Jolly said in Actions Have Consequences:
Milley is a soldier, subject to the chain of command the UCMJ. There is no excuse for actively trying to undermine your commanding officer, other than a refusal of orders as I have talked about previously.
What do you think Milley would have done if a captain under his command pulled similar crap to what he did?
Patton? Patton would have offered you a cigarette before having you shot.
But you were okay with Sec. Hegseth ignoring the military code of justice. (if that is the proper term)
In something like the military expecially, the rules have to be followed or there are consequences.
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Milley drafted his resignation letter but thought it was his duty to protect the country from within. I can understand why what he did had consequences, as he fully knew as he stated... but China didn't attack in January 2021 did they? Ok cheap question, that's non-evidence, but what is evidence are all of the top military brass agreeing with Milley, that is not a coincidence. Milley can't initiate the 25th amendment either. You just don't like him because he did this to your guy, but if he did it to a barely conscious Biden, you'd be saying he did his duty to the country.
@89th said in Actions Have Consequences:
Milley drafted his resignation letter but thought it was his duty to protect the country from within. I can understand why what he did had consequences, as he fully knew as he stated... but China didn't attack in January 2021 did they? Ok cheap question, that's non-evidence, but what is evidence are all of the top military brass agreeing with Milley, that is not a coincidence. Milley can't initiate the 25th amendment either. You just don't like him because he did this to your guy, but if he did it to a barely conscious Biden, you'd be saying he did his duty to the country.
Duty?
The duty of a sniveling rat, one of the worst examples of the ticket-punching, Perfumed Princes of the Pentagon?
If you think the country is in imminent danger, it's all enemies, foreign and domestic. He didn't do that...He had no honor, so he would not resign, he just tried to create a festering wound in the chain of command.
A man like that is not worth spitting on, let alone placing him on some pedestal to be admired.
Go on with your blarney, lad. I ain't buying your BS.
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On one side is Trump, and the other side is pretty much every top level military leader in recent memory supporting Milley, so I think I know which side I'm comfortable placing my trust in.
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On one side is Trump, and the other side is pretty much every top level military leader in recent memory supporting Milley, so I think I know which side I'm comfortable placing my trust in.
@89th said in Actions Have Consequences:
On one side is Trump, and the other side is pretty much every top level military leader in recent memory supporting Milley, so I think I know which side I'm comfortable placing my trust in.
I'm sure we'll all sleep better knowing a TDS sufferer has found peace.
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On one side is Trump, and the other side is pretty much every top level military leader in recent memory supporting Milley, so I think I know which side I'm comfortable placing my trust in.
@89th said in Actions Have Consequences:
On one side is Trump, and the other side is pretty much every top level military leader in recent memory supporting Milley, so I think I know which side I'm comfortable placing my trust in.
Well first of all the self-selected generals who publicly repudiate Trump are a small percentage of the total generals. Second, I wonder if you're slyly confusing disrespect for Trump with full support for Milley's actions. Those are two very different things.
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No the folks I listed above publicly came out in support of Milley's assessment of Trump. Whether they would've done the same thing, who knows, but they all agreed Milley's reasoning was not flawed. I fully expect the investigation to publish results, whether they support Trump's view or not. (LOL)
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No the folks I listed above publicly came out in support of Milley's assessment of Trump. Whether they would've done the same thing, who knows, but they all agreed Milley's reasoning was not flawed. I fully expect the investigation to publish results, whether they support Trump's view or not. (LOL)
@89th said in Actions Have Consequences:
No the folks I listed above publicly came out in support of Milley's assessment of Trump. Whether they would've done the same thing, who knows, but they all agreed Milley's reasoning was not flawed. I fully expect the investigation to publish results, whether they support Trump's view or not. (LOL)
Do you have a cite for that?
Education is extremely important.
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Here's the best cite of "support for Milley's actions" I could find. Spoiler: Biden, the spokesperson for Biden, and John Bolton came out in specific support for his actions.
Note that Bolton failed to seek security clearance for his book before publishing it, and it is known to contain sensitive information that would have been censored, if he'd gone through the appropriate channels. I do not consider him to be of impeccable integrity in anything related to Trump.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/15/politics/milley-woodward-china-trump/index.html
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@89th said in Actions Have Consequences:
No the folks I listed above publicly came out in support of Milley's assessment of Trump. Whether they would've done the same thing, who knows, but they all agreed Milley's reasoning was not flawed. I fully expect the investigation to publish results, whether they support Trump's view or not. (LOL)
Do you have a cite for that?
@Horace said in Actions Have Consequences:
@89th said in Actions Have Consequences:
No the folks I listed above publicly came out in support of Milley's assessment of Trump. Whether they would've done the same thing, who knows, but they all agreed Milley's reasoning was not flawed. I fully expect the investigation to publish results, whether they support Trump's view or not. (LOL)
Do you have a cite for that?
Oh bloody hell, I read it somewhere recently. I'll see if I can find it.
Not sure, might have been an article similar to this: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4929487-trump-dangerous-milley-woodward/
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I've read some anonymous claims that he did nothing out of the ordinary, and that it was a standard sort of conversation. I have trouble swallowing that. The only names or offices I could find who specifically supported his calls to China were Biden, his press secretary, Bolton, and Milley's spokesperson.
Education is extremely important.
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I'd also note that Milley is on the fringe with his rhetoric about Trump, beyond even Bolton. "Fascist to the core", MSNBC style rhetoric. It's ok to admit the possibility that the guy is captured by TDS hysteria, and he let that affect his professional judgments. If anybody thinks army generals should be above that sort of thing, I think they should think again.
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I've read some anonymous claims that he did nothing out of the ordinary, and that it was a standard sort of conversation. I have trouble swallowing that. The only names or offices I could find who specifically supported his calls to China were Biden, his press secretary, Bolton, and Milley's spokesperson.
I've read some anonymous claims that he did nothing out of the ordinary, and that it was a standard sort of conversation. I have trouble swallowing that.
I recall myself defending Gen. Mike Flynn in TNCR in his capacity as unconfirmed NSA to President elect Trump, for having sensitive conversations with the Russian ambassador in late 2015. Flynn, rather than saying “it’s my job so shut up” decided it would be better to implicate Mike Pence as a cover. Dumb move, Flynn only managed to blindside and embarrass Pence and was forced to decline the NSA appointment. We saw a slight replay of the same this time with Gaetz.
I still doubt that Flynn did anything wrong. He was well within his station to speak directly to the Russian Ambassador. Same goes for Milley - he was speaking to his counterpart in China. If it had been with Xi it would have been beyond his station and wholly unacceptable. With his own military counterpart in Beijing, not at all. Both Flynn and Milley however were sloppy in dealing with the political blowback and ensuing feeding frenzy of hearsay spearheaded by media and politicians alike.
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Can we talk about the Afghan Withdrawal?
The Brad
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Can we talk about the Afghan Withdrawal?
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Can we talk about the Afghan Withdrawal?
@LuFins-Dad said in Actions Have Consequences:
Can we talk about the Afghan Withdrawal?
Wasn't that a 24kt fuck-up?...
