Helicopter Crash in DC
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@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
I'll be surprised if more information is ever found out as it seems pretty clear the helo pilot was looking at the wrong CRJ and didn't see the doomed plane out his left window (since runway 33 is used far less often) until it broadsided him. Maybe there is cockpit audio they can recover?
Trump needs to learn when to stop talking about things he doesn't know, but I think that ship has sailed.
Trump is Trump.
After the last four years of being lied to, not talked to at all and a staff that covered up the shortcomings of a doddering old fool, like a cat covering up shit, a bit too much talking is like a refreshing breeze on a hot day.
Fair enough, I did mention before that I am enjoying many of the EOs coming out and getting shit done. That being said, being lied to...are you referring to Biden (count TBD) or Trump (30,573 in Trump's first term)? Being quite and wrong is just as bad as being loud and wrong. Why can't we just have an honest adult in the room?
@89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
I'll be surprised if more information is ever found out as it seems pretty clear the helo pilot was looking at the wrong CRJ and didn't see the doomed plane out his left window (since runway 33 is used far less often) until it broadsided him. Maybe there is cockpit audio they can recover?
Trump needs to learn when to stop talking about things he doesn't know, but I think that ship has sailed.
Trump is Trump.
After the last four years of being lied to, not talked to at all and a staff that covered up the shortcomings of a doddering old fool, like a cat covering up shit, a bit too much talking is like a refreshing breeze on a hot day.
Fair enough, I did mention before that I am enjoying many of the EOs coming out and getting shit done. That being said, being lied to...are you referring to Biden (count TBD) or Trump (30,573 in Trump's first term)? Being quite and wrong is just as bad as being loud and wrong. Why can't we just have an honest adult in the room?
You keep hanging onto that 30,573 number like an acne riddled adolescent boy who managed to get his hands in a girl's panties for the first time.
Eh, doc, where'd you get the number?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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After the last four years of being lied to, not talked to at all and a staff that covered up the shortcomings of a doddering old fool, like a cat covering up shit, a bit too much talking is like a refreshing breeze on a hot day.
Nothing refreshing about Trump’s uninformed musings on this tragedy. It is lacking sound judgement and way out of line.
@Renauda said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
After the last four years of being lied to, not talked to at all and a staff that covered up the shortcomings of a doddering old fool, like a cat covering up shit, a bit too much talking is like a refreshing breeze on a hot day.
Nothing refreshing about Trump’s uninformed musings in this tragedy. It is lacking sound judgement and way out of line.
Yeah I keep seeing clips. He's completely talking out of his arse, DEI standards, computer systems, 60 planes coming in and out, it's really not that complicated of a situation and his politicization of it is an insult to the families who just lost loved ones 12 hours ago.
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@89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
I'll be surprised if more information is ever found out as it seems pretty clear the helo pilot was looking at the wrong CRJ and didn't see the doomed plane out his left window (since runway 33 is used far less often) until it broadsided him. Maybe there is cockpit audio they can recover?
Trump needs to learn when to stop talking about things he doesn't know, but I think that ship has sailed.
Trump is Trump.
After the last four years of being lied to, not talked to at all and a staff that covered up the shortcomings of a doddering old fool, like a cat covering up shit, a bit too much talking is like a refreshing breeze on a hot day.
Fair enough, I did mention before that I am enjoying many of the EOs coming out and getting shit done. That being said, being lied to...are you referring to Biden (count TBD) or Trump (30,573 in Trump's first term)? Being quite and wrong is just as bad as being loud and wrong. Why can't we just have an honest adult in the room?
You keep hanging onto that 30,573 number like an acne riddled adolescent boy who managed to get his hands in a girl's panties for the first time.
Eh, doc, where'd you get the number?
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
You keep hanging onto that 30,573 number like an acne riddled adolescent boy who managed to get his hands in a girl's panties for the first time.
Eh, doc, where'd you get the number?
It's a completely auditable list. You can download the .CSV file here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/csv/wapo_trumpclaims_export-012021.csv.zip
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I wouldn't give the Washington Compost the time of day. Their bias is well known.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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And in a spirit of fair play, I'm sure they counted Biden's false or misleading statements too. If they had, what the best possible rhetorical punch that would be left? Trump had 30 thousand lies against a mere 21 thousand for Biden!
Education is extremely important.
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It's actually funny to go through the list and how numb/normalized people are to his false statements. I literally just picked two random ones here:
Claim: We won Florida and Ohio in record numbers. We won Iowa by 8.2%. Nobody's ever won those three states and lost, never happened before. It's almost impossible unless people do a lot of -- either get very lucky or they cheat.
Analysis: Richard Nixon, a Republican, won (Iowa), Ohio and Florida in 1960 -- and lost to John F. Kennedy, a Democrat.
Claim: They call them organic where they just spring up, thousands of cars that stretch for 98 miles, tractors, thousands of tractors and farms in Iowa.
Analysis: A total fabrication. The biggest tractor parade for Trump we could find was in Ohio, with nearly 300 combines and tractors. A September tractor parade in Jefferson, Iowa registered "80 tractors and trucks" There appears to be no estimate for the parade in Atlantic, Iowa that Trump appears to be referencing but indicates few tractors and mostly pickup trucks, numbering at best a few hundred.
Link to video -
And in a spirit of fair play, I'm sure they counted Biden's false or misleading statements too. If they had, what the best possible rhetorical punch that would be left? Trump had 30 thousand lies against a mere 21 thousand for Biden!
@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
And in a spirit of fair play, I'm sure they counted Biden's false or misleading statements too. If they had, what the best possible rhetorical punch that would be left? Trump had 30 thousand lies against a mere 21 thousand for Biden!
They actually did start counting Biden's lies but stopped after 100 days once they realized it was apples to orange (man).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/biden-fact-checker-100-days/'
They said Trump was most prolific with his lying the 100 days before the 2020 election when he racked up over 8,000 lies.
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Maybe give it a rest, guys?
I was only joking
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@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
And in a spirit of fair play, I'm sure they counted Biden's false or misleading statements too. If they had, what the best possible rhetorical punch that would be left? Trump had 30 thousand lies against a mere 21 thousand for Biden!
They actually did start counting Biden's lies but stopped after 100 days once they realized it was apples to orange (man).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/biden-fact-checker-100-days/'
They said Trump was most prolific with his lying the 100 days before the 2020 election when he racked up over 8,000 lies.
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Maybe give it a rest, guys?
@Doctor-Phibes oh, the Trump haters are out in force, being horrified at Trump's speech. Are we all bound not to respond?
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Is there a morbid humor if it turns out that it was the fault of the ATC from REAGAN National Airport?
The Brad
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Can someone please explain to me, and please type very slowly so I understand, isn’t it the job of ATC to prevent mid air collisions?
The instructions given by ATC were either followed or they were not. If they were followed, ATC bears the culpability. If they were not, it remains to be seen, which of the two pilots is responsible.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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I think it’s quite possible there were failures by both the ATC and the Blackhawk Crew.
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Does the military helicopters come under that air traffic control the same as planes?
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The ATC instructions look to have amounted to "helicopter, avoid the planes by looking around with your eyes". Those instructions were not followed per se.
@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
The ATC instructions look to have amounted to "helicopter, avoid the planes by looking around with your eyes". Those instructions were not followed per se.
It would be worth knowing whether the instructions being given by the ATC are typical for this type of situation, or whether they normally provide more information.
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Can someone please explain to me, and please type very slowly so I understand, isn’t it the job of ATC to prevent mid air collisions?
The instructions given by ATC were either followed or they were not. If they were followed, ATC bears the culpability. If they were not, it remains to be seen, which of the two pilots is responsible.
@George-K said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Can someone please explain to me, and please type very slowly so I understand, isn’t it the job of ATC to prevent mid air collisions?
There are lots and lots of exceptions for what I wrote below, I'm just trying to keep it simple.
When a pilot files an instrument flight plan he will follow step-by-step instructions until he arrives at his destination.
He will be watched on radar by ATC and they will provide separation from other traffic.
If the pilot switches to VFR (visual flight rules) ATC will no longer provide separation and the pilot does his own navigation.
So why would a guy switch to VFR? For many reasons. It makes life a bit simpler because you don't have to communicate as much with ATC, and you are doing your own navigation which is generally simpler. Also it frees up some air space for other airplanes. Once you go visual the ATC doesn't have to maintain as much separation. So this means more planes can use a busy airspace.
When I was flying at Leesburg, VA and I wanted to make an IFR flight and the sky was clear, I might take off VFR and request to open the IFR plan in flight. Why do this? Because if there was traffic taking off IFR at Dulles Airport, they would not release us to takeoff while the Dulles traffic was still in the vicinity. So I would just takeoff VFR because then I didn't need clearance, I could do whatever I want. This could save me a lot of time because I didn't sit on the ground waiting for commercial traffic that always got higher priority. After getting out of the area I could open the IFR plan with no conflicts.
I think it common on a clear day to fly a visual approach - like the jet last night. Flying a visual approach the pilot navigates by looking out the window.
So once you go visual the ATC ignores you? Yes and no. If he is controlling other IFR traffic ATC will provide traffic advisories to the IFR flight.
Another option is VFR Flight Following, ATC will provide advisories as his time permits, if ATC is too busy the VFR pilot might not get advisories.
That jet was on a visual approach, but we heard on the tape that he was getting traffic advisories, certainly the helicopter was being advised of the traffic. Would they have received more or better advisories if the jet remained IFR? Maybe. That question will be asked during the investigation. But either way, those 2 should have been following each other closely, they had both been advised of the traffic.
