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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. A Letter on Justice and Open Debate

A Letter on Justice and Open Debate

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
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  • jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #47

    Chomsky on the reaction the letter has generated.

    7EAAFB8F-72D1-4E9F-898E-91E980312A0C.png

    You were warned.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Online
      HoraceH Online
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #48

      Yes it's well known that cancel culture is already a powerful force in our most important institutions. It's nice to see this data. It will be disgusting to watch the Ezra Kleins of the world continue to deny its existence.

      Rogan had on recently the guy who wrote the nonsensical -studies papers that got accepted and published. He said that the last time a feminist studies (or any -studies) academic paper got seriously peer reviewed was in the 90s.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by
        #49

        Yeah. James Lindsey. I preordered his book.

        You were warned.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • HoraceH Online
          HoraceH Online
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by
          #50

          I listened to Klein's podcast about this. He discussed it with Yascha Mounk, who was on the free speech side of the debate. It really did come down to Ezra just saying that while he understands why free speech is important, trans people's feelings have to be taken into account and if free speech can hurt them, then free speech needs to be reconsidered. If asked to reflect on that trade-off, he would just dig deeper into how important the feelings of trans people are, and how they face legitimate danger every day, because people want to murder them.

          It's clear that those sorts of arguments can be used eternally by those who have an interest, based on the power dynamics as they see them, in shutting down free speech. If it's not trans folk it'll be some other group. It does not appear to matter how large the group is.

          One thing Klein and Mounk agreed on was that the White Fragility book was bad. Klein thought it made some good points though. They mentioned something that I've noticed, too. That "white supremacists" share common beliefs with the ideas in that book - that white people are different and privileged. It's just that one group feels pride about it, and the other group feels shame.

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by
            #51

            I’m surprised Klein conceded that much about the book.

            Look for McWhorter’s review in the Atlantic.

            You were warned.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • HoraceH Online
              HoraceH Online
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by Horace
              #52

              Yglesias had McWhorter on his podcast today. Good discussion. Oh, the cognitive dissonance that must be managed by high status progressives when they listen to a guy like McWhorter.

              Just kidding, I know they'd never listen to a guy like McWhorter.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #53

                Seek out McWhorter’s last visit to Glen Loury’s podcast, maybe a week ago. (He’s on regularly)

                How did Yglesias react to him?

                You were warned.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • HoraceH Online
                  HoraceH Online
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #54

                  They never disagreed much. Yglesias is attempting to publicly embrace being not-totally-woke. He commented a couple times in the interview that the stuff they were discussing would seem heretical to many of his friends. I think like a lot of people on the left who are capable of doing some thinking, he thinks the direction is good and justifies a ton of disingenuousness in messaging to that end. But he's smart enough to know how absurd some of it is getting and has chosen not to consider all the opposition evil.

                  McWhorter enjoys a privilege of being taken seriously thinking what he thinks and saying what he says. Identical thoughts and words from a person with the wrong skin color would not make it onto Yglesias' show. (Of course.)

                  Education is extremely important.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #55

                    What’s the name of the podcast?

                    You were warned.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • HoraceH Online
                      HoraceH Online
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #56

                      It's a Vox podcast called The Weeds.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #57

                        Thanks

                        You were warned.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #58

                          Listened to the first 50m or so this morning on my walk.

                          My first thought was Yglesias really has a voice for blogging....

                          Also McWhorter is good at changing his tone and style for his audience. He comes off differently with Loury.

                          You were warned.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #59

                            And now Yglesias is out.

                            You were warned.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • Aqua LetiferA Offline
                              Aqua LetiferA Offline
                              Aqua Letifer
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #60

                              Not too surprising. I wonder to what extent the left will separate itself from the far left in the coming months and year.

                              Please love yourself.

                              L 1 Reply Last reply
                              • JollyJ Offline
                                JollyJ Offline
                                Jolly
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #61

                                Don't know if it can.

                                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • George KG Offline
                                  George KG Offline
                                  George K
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #62

                                  What do you think the odds are that he’s going to work in the Biden administration?

                                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • HoraceH Online
                                    HoraceH Online
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #63

                                    I suspect he ran face-first into Ezra's idealogue side.

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                                      Not too surprising. I wonder to what extent the left will separate itself from the far left in the coming months and year.

                                      L Offline
                                      L Offline
                                      Loki
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #64

                                      @Aqua-Letifer said in A Letter on Justice and Open Debate:

                                      Not too surprising. I wonder to what extent the left will separate itself from the far left in the coming months and year.

                                      We might find this is what Biden really meant when he talked about a divided country.

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