Trump loses in NY
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@LuFins-Dad said in Trump loses in NY:
No, no, no. This is a private business transaction between 2 corporate entities. It is the responsibility of the bank to establish and verify the property values, and believe me, they did. If they didn’t, the crime here is on the part of the banks by ignoring their fiduciary responsibilities to the depositors in their bank. In addition, it is in no way shape or form the responsibility of any government to establish the value of a business.
I haven’t reviewed the details but I believe the government has plenty of proof and testimony that the financial statements Trump used were purposefully inflated (aka fraudulent), no?
wrote on 24 Feb 2024, 22:02 last edited by@89th said in Trump loses in NY:
@LuFins-Dad said in Trump loses in NY:
No, no, no. This is a private business transaction between 2 corporate entities. It is the responsibility of the bank to establish and verify the property values, and believe me, they did. If they didn’t, the crime here is on the part of the banks by ignoring their fiduciary responsibilities to the depositors in their bank. In addition, it is in no way shape or form the responsibility of any government to establish the value of a business.
I haven’t reviewed the details but I believe the government has plenty of proof and testimony that the financial statements Trump used were purposefully inflated (aka fraudulent), no?
Absolutely irrelevant
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wrote on 24 Feb 2024, 23:03 last edited by
@George-K said in Trump loses in NY:
@jon commented (or was it @kluurs?) that the statute that Trump was found in violation of states that the intent to deceive is the crime, not the deception itself, not the financial loss of anyone.
Criminal? Misdemeanor? Or Civil? Seems to me that the state really can’t bring Civil. So if it’s Felony or Misdemeanor, there should be an established penalty. Fined up to _____, Jail up to ______.
Beyond that, we are dealing with Value. What is the value of these properties? Let me ask you a question. Is the value of my house what Redfin says? The tax assessor? Or is the value of my house what you are willing to pay and what I’m willing to accept? Once the state is determining value, we’re all fucked. Trump said the value of the properties is _______. The banks agreed. End of story. Beyond that, Trump paid (surprisingly) these loans off. End of story. Now, we can say that Trump lied on the applications. Fine. There should be an established and simple proscribed penalty. And that penalty should be the same no matter the value discrepancy. The penalty for stealing a Bentley is the same as stealing a Honda Civic, no?
I can not stand Trump, but this decision is breathtaking in the implications.
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wrote on 24 Feb 2024, 23:05 last edited by
@George-K said in Trump loses in NY:
@jon commented (or was it @kluurs?) that the statute that Trump was found in violation of states that the intent to deceive is the crime, not the deception itself, not the financial loss of anyone.
If the intent is the crime (how Catholic is that?) then the penalty is not variable. If the financial loss is irrelevant then it’s irrelevant to the penalty.
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wrote on 24 Feb 2024, 23:16 last edited by
@LuFins-Dad , I agree with you. For a (in the judge's words) venial sin (how Catholic is that?), to impose a fine of almost half a billion dollars....
I think Andy McCarthy said that Trump has a reasonable shot at an 8th amendment appeal.
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wrote on 24 Feb 2024, 23:26 last edited by
A. I hope trump wins on appeal, although he has to put up a King's ransom to appeal. That doesn't seem right.
B. I hope that that motor buzzing sound you hear, is businesses leaving New York. I'd like to see their tax revenues down by 20%. At least.
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wrote on 25 Feb 2024, 03:30 last edited by
I would.
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@LuFins-Dad , I agree with you. For a (in the judge's words) venial sin (how Catholic is that?), to impose a fine of almost half a billion dollars....
I think Andy McCarthy said that Trump has a reasonable shot at an 8th amendment appeal.
wrote on 25 Feb 2024, 13:21 last edited by@George-K said in Trump loses in NY:
@LuFins-Dad , I agree with you. For a (in the judge's words) venial sin (how Catholic is that?),
I see what you did, there…
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@George-K said in Trump loses in NY:
@jon commented (or was it @kluurs?) that the statute that Trump was found in violation of states that the intent to deceive is the crime, not the deception itself, not the financial loss of anyone.
Criminal? Misdemeanor? Or Civil? Seems to me that the state really can’t bring Civil. So if it’s Felony or Misdemeanor, there should be an established penalty. Fined up to _____, Jail up to ______.
Beyond that, we are dealing with Value. What is the value of these properties? Let me ask you a question. Is the value of my house what Redfin says? The tax assessor? Or is the value of my house what you are willing to pay and what I’m willing to accept? Once the state is determining value, we’re all fucked. Trump said the value of the properties is _______. The banks agreed. End of story. Beyond that, Trump paid (surprisingly) these loans off. End of story. Now, we can say that Trump lied on the applications. Fine. There should be an established and simple proscribed penalty. And that penalty should be the same no matter the value discrepancy. The penalty for stealing a Bentley is the same as stealing a Honda Civic, no?
I can not stand Trump, but this decision is breathtaking in the implications.
wrote on 25 Feb 2024, 15:50 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in Trump loses in NY:
Beyond that, we are dealing with Value. What is the value of these properties? Let me ask you a question. Is the value of my house what Redfin says? The tax assessor? Or is the value of my house what you are willing to pay and what I’m willing to accept?
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wrote on 26 Feb 2024, 15:18 last edited by
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wrote on 19 Mar 2024, 13:20 last edited by
Trump can't raise the cash:
Trump, the billionaire former president and putative 2024 Republican presidential nominee, has told a New York state appellate court that he is not able to post a bond fully securing the enormous judgment awarded against him in the recent civil fraud trial.
I love this law...
- To appeal, you have to post a bond in the amount of the judgment
- The judgment is half a billion dollars
- No one has that kind of cash!
- Sorry, Charlie.
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wrote on 19 Mar 2024, 13:24 last edited by Renauda
Maybe Trump’s two friends Vladimir Putin and Viktor Orban, can lend him an invisible hand in this regard.
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wrote on 19 Mar 2024, 13:41 last edited by
Federal case?
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wrote on 19 Mar 2024, 13:59 last edited by
@Jolly said in Trump loses in NY:
Federal case?
Some, like McCarthy, think he has an 8th amendment case to be made. Since the fine is so high (and capricious), his right to appeal has, for all practical purposes, been denied.
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wrote on 19 Mar 2024, 14:07 last edited by
Agreed.
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wrote on 21 Mar 2024, 00:48 last edited by
The Duke of Trumpster might want to consider taking out a reverse mortgage on Mar-a-Lago Castle. Given his age he should qualify.
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wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 17:45 last edited by
Trump's bond reduced from half a billion (or so) to about a sixth of billion:
For the sake of comparison, Madoff's bond was $10 million.
SBF's BAIL was about half of Trump's bond was.
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Trump's bond reduced from half a billion (or so) to about a sixth of billion:
For the sake of comparison, Madoff's bond was $10 million.
SBF's BAIL was about half of Trump's bond was.
wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 18:08 last edited by@George-K said in Trump loses in NY:
Trump's bond reduced from half a billion (or so) to about a sixth of billion:
For the sake of comparison, Madoff's bond was $10 million.
SBF's BAIL was about half of Trump's bond was.
I assume a phone call or two was made.
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wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 18:12 last edited by
And it still is an ungodly amount of money. I hope this case gives NYC a real estate black eye for a decade.
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wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 18:15 last edited by
It will. It's an indefensible amount and a much too short timeframe.
