Trump loses in NY
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@89th said in Trump loses in NY:
@George-K said in Trump loses in NY:
Here's where I can't connect the dots.
Judge: "This was a venial transgression. No one was harmed. But, you're an asshole, so cough up a third of a billion - plus interest at $90K a day."
It’s not about being harmed. I guess the banks were harmed because they should’ve made more interest, but nonetheless. It’s like if someone falsifies their financial statements to pay less tax. No one was harmed but if they’re caught they will owe what they should’ve paid, plus interest/fines, and if they don’t acknowledge their fraud then the judge won’t be very happy.
No, no, no. This is a private business transaction between 2 corporate entities. It is the responsibility of the bank to establish and verify the property values, and believe me, they did. If they didn’t, the crime here is on the part of the banks by ignoring their fiduciary responsibilities to the depositors in their bank. In addition, it is in no way shape or form the responsibility of any government to establish the value of a business. That is the responsibility of businesses to come to an agreement on the values. Finally, utilizing a law to target a specific person? Police in some states aren’t allowed to pull over cars with expired safety inspections because it might be seen as targeting communities, to use a bad law to specifically target an individual? As Uncle President Joe would say, C’mon Man!
@LuFins-Dad said in Trump loses in NY:
No, no, no. This is a private business transaction between 2 corporate entities. It is the responsibility of the bank to establish and verify the property values, and believe me, they did. If they didn’t, the crime here is on the part of the banks by ignoring their fiduciary responsibilities to the depositors in their bank. In addition, it is in no way shape or form the responsibility of any government to establish the value of a business.
I haven’t reviewed the details but I believe the government has plenty of proof and testimony that the financial statements Trump used were purposefully inflated (aka fraudulent), no?
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By the way, as somebody against Trump, this ought to REALLY piss you off. All this does is solidify support for Trump. I’m a “Never Again, Trumper” but this make me feel much more sympathetic to the cause. There will be many other voters that were in the fence that will be leaning towards Trump now.
@LuFins-Dad said in Trump loses in NY:
By the way, as somebody against Trump, this ought to REALLY piss you off. All this does is solidify support for Trump. I’m a “Never Again, Trumper” but this make me feel much more sympathetic to the cause. There will be many other voters that were in the fence that will be leaning towards Trump now.
Don’t really think so. Those who will vote for Trump already know it. It’s a smaller number than what he got in 2020 because of his election loss antics. I doubt anyone will be like “well I wanted to vote for someone else but now I feel bad for Trump being held accountable for fraudulent financial statements to banks”
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@LuFins-Dad said in Trump loses in NY:
No, no, no. This is a private business transaction between 2 corporate entities. It is the responsibility of the bank to establish and verify the property values, and believe me, they did. If they didn’t, the crime here is on the part of the banks by ignoring their fiduciary responsibilities to the depositors in their bank. In addition, it is in no way shape or form the responsibility of any government to establish the value of a business.
I haven’t reviewed the details but I believe the government has plenty of proof and testimony that the financial statements Trump used were purposefully inflated (aka fraudulent), no?
@89th said in Trump loses in NY:
@LuFins-Dad said in Trump loses in NY:
No, no, no. This is a private business transaction between 2 corporate entities. It is the responsibility of the bank to establish and verify the property values, and believe me, they did. If they didn’t, the crime here is on the part of the banks by ignoring their fiduciary responsibilities to the depositors in their bank. In addition, it is in no way shape or form the responsibility of any government to establish the value of a business.
I haven’t reviewed the details but I believe the government has plenty of proof and testimony that the financial statements Trump used were purposefully inflated (aka fraudulent), no?
Absolutely irrelevant
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@jon commented (or was it @kluurs?) that the statute that Trump was found in violation of states that the intent to deceive is the crime, not the deception itself, not the financial loss of anyone.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@George-K said in Trump loses in NY:
@jon commented (or was it @kluurs?) that the statute that Trump was found in violation of states that the intent to deceive is the crime, not the deception itself, not the financial loss of anyone.
Criminal? Misdemeanor? Or Civil? Seems to me that the state really can’t bring Civil. So if it’s Felony or Misdemeanor, there should be an established penalty. Fined up to _____, Jail up to ______.
Beyond that, we are dealing with Value. What is the value of these properties? Let me ask you a question. Is the value of my house what Redfin says? The tax assessor? Or is the value of my house what you are willing to pay and what I’m willing to accept? Once the state is determining value, we’re all fucked. Trump said the value of the properties is _______. The banks agreed. End of story. Beyond that, Trump paid (surprisingly) these loans off. End of story. Now, we can say that Trump lied on the applications. Fine. There should be an established and simple proscribed penalty. And that penalty should be the same no matter the value discrepancy. The penalty for stealing a Bentley is the same as stealing a Honda Civic, no?
I can not stand Trump, but this decision is breathtaking in the implications.
The Brad
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@George-K said in Trump loses in NY:
@jon commented (or was it @kluurs?) that the statute that Trump was found in violation of states that the intent to deceive is the crime, not the deception itself, not the financial loss of anyone.
If the intent is the crime (how Catholic is that?) then the penalty is not variable. If the financial loss is irrelevant then it’s irrelevant to the penalty.
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@LuFins-Dad , I agree with you. For a (in the judge's words) venial sin (how Catholic is that?), to impose a fine of almost half a billion dollars....
I think Andy McCarthy said that Trump has a reasonable shot at an 8th amendment appeal.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@LuFins-Dad , I agree with you. For a (in the judge's words) venial sin (how Catholic is that?), to impose a fine of almost half a billion dollars....
I think Andy McCarthy said that Trump has a reasonable shot at an 8th amendment appeal.
@George-K said in Trump loses in NY:
@LuFins-Dad , I agree with you. For a (in the judge's words) venial sin (how Catholic is that?),
I see what you did, there…
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@George-K said in Trump loses in NY:
@jon commented (or was it @kluurs?) that the statute that Trump was found in violation of states that the intent to deceive is the crime, not the deception itself, not the financial loss of anyone.
Criminal? Misdemeanor? Or Civil? Seems to me that the state really can’t bring Civil. So if it’s Felony or Misdemeanor, there should be an established penalty. Fined up to _____, Jail up to ______.
Beyond that, we are dealing with Value. What is the value of these properties? Let me ask you a question. Is the value of my house what Redfin says? The tax assessor? Or is the value of my house what you are willing to pay and what I’m willing to accept? Once the state is determining value, we’re all fucked. Trump said the value of the properties is _______. The banks agreed. End of story. Beyond that, Trump paid (surprisingly) these loans off. End of story. Now, we can say that Trump lied on the applications. Fine. There should be an established and simple proscribed penalty. And that penalty should be the same no matter the value discrepancy. The penalty for stealing a Bentley is the same as stealing a Honda Civic, no?
I can not stand Trump, but this decision is breathtaking in the implications.
@LuFins-Dad said in Trump loses in NY:
Beyond that, we are dealing with Value. What is the value of these properties? Let me ask you a question. Is the value of my house what Redfin says? The tax assessor? Or is the value of my house what you are willing to pay and what I’m willing to accept?
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Trump can't raise the cash:
Trump, the billionaire former president and putative 2024 Republican presidential nominee, has told a New York state appellate court that he is not able to post a bond fully securing the enormous judgment awarded against him in the recent civil fraud trial.
I love this law...
- To appeal, you have to post a bond in the amount of the judgment
- The judgment is half a billion dollars
- No one has that kind of cash!
- Sorry, Charlie.
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Trump's bond reduced from half a billion (or so) to about a sixth of billion:
For the sake of comparison, Madoff's bond was $10 million.
SBF's BAIL was about half of Trump's bond was.
