Trump loses in NY

[LuFins Dad]

[89th]

@LuFins-Dad said in Trump loses in NY:

No, no, no. This is a private business transaction between 2 corporate entities. It is the responsibility of the bank to establish and verify the property values, and believe me, they did. If they didn’t, the crime here is on the part of the banks by ignoring their fiduciary responsibilities to the depositors in their bank. In addition, it is in no way shape or form the responsibility of any government to establish the value of a business.

I haven’t reviewed the details but I believe the government has plenty of proof and testimony that the financial statements Trump used were purposefully inflated (aka fraudulent), no?

[89th]

@LuFins-Dad said in Trump loses in NY:

By the way, as somebody against Trump, this ought to REALLY piss you off. All this does is solidify support for Trump. I’m a “Never Again, Trumper” but this make me feel much more sympathetic to the cause. There will be many other voters that were in the fence that will be leaning towards Trump now.

Don’t really think so. Those who will vote for Trump already know it. It’s a smaller number than what he got in 2020 because of his election loss antics. I doubt anyone will be like “well I wanted to vote for someone else but now I feel bad for Trump being held accountable for fraudulent financial statements to banks”

[LuFins Dad]

@89th said in Trump loses in NY:

@LuFins-Dad said in Trump loses in NY:

No, no, no. This is a private business transaction between 2 corporate entities. It is the responsibility of the bank to establish and verify the property values, and believe me, they did. If they didn’t, the crime here is on the part of the banks by ignoring their fiduciary responsibilities to the depositors in their bank. In addition, it is in no way shape or form the responsibility of any government to establish the value of a business.

I haven’t reviewed the details but I believe the government has plenty of proof and testimony that the financial statements Trump used were purposefully inflated (aka fraudulent), no?

Absolutely irrelevant

[George K]

@jon commented (or was it @kluurs?) that the statute that Trump was found in violation of states that the intent to deceive is the crime, not the deception itself, not the financial loss of anyone.

[LuFins Dad]

@George-K said in Trump loses in NY:

@jon commented (or was it @kluurs?) that the statute that Trump was found in violation of states that the intent to deceive is the crime, not the deception itself, not the financial loss of anyone.

Criminal? Misdemeanor? Or Civil? Seems to me that the state really can’t bring Civil. So if it’s Felony or Misdemeanor, there should be an established penalty. Fined up to _____, Jail up to ______.

Beyond that, we are dealing with Value. What is the value of these properties? Let me ask you a question. Is the value of my house what Redfin says? The tax assessor? Or is the value of my house what you are willing to pay and what I’m willing to accept? Once the state is determining value, we’re all fucked. Trump said the value of the properties is _______. The banks agreed. End of story. Beyond that, Trump paid (surprisingly) these loans off. End of story. Now, we can say that Trump lied on the applications. Fine. There should be an established and simple proscribed penalty. And that penalty should be the same no matter the value discrepancy. The penalty for stealing a Bentley is the same as stealing a Honda Civic, no?

I can not stand Trump, but this decision is breathtaking in the implications.

[LuFins Dad]

@George-K said in Trump loses in NY:

@jon commented (or was it @kluurs?) that the statute that Trump was found in violation of states that the intent to deceive is the crime, not the deception itself, not the financial loss of anyone.

If the intent is the crime (how Catholic is that?) then the penalty is not variable. If the financial loss is irrelevant then it’s irrelevant to the penalty.

[George K]

@LuFins-Dad , I agree with you. For a (in the judge's words) venial sin (how Catholic is that?), to impose a fine of almost half a billion dollars....

I think Andy McCarthy said that Trump has a reasonable shot at an 8th amendment appeal.

[Jolly]

A. I hope trump wins on appeal, although he has to put up a King's ransom to appeal. That doesn't seem right.

B. I hope that that motor buzzing sound you hear, is businesses leaving New York. I'd like to see their tax revenues down by 20%. At least.

[Mik]

I would.

[LuFins Dad]

@George-K said in Trump loses in NY:

@LuFins-Dad , I agree with you. For a (in the judge's words) venial sin (how Catholic is that?),

I see what you did, there…

[George K]

@LuFins-Dad said in Trump loses in NY:

Beyond that, we are dealing with Value. What is the value of these properties? Let me ask you a question. Is the value of my house what Redfin says? The tax assessor? Or is the value of my house what you are willing to pay and what I’m willing to accept?

[George K]

Appeal Filed:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/26/trump-appeals-new-york-civil-fraud-verdict.html

[George K]

Trump can't raise the cash:

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trump-says-he-cannot-post-bond-asks-ny-appeals-court-to-stay-enforcement-of-454m-civil-fraud-judgment/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=right-rail&utm_content=corner&utm_term=second

Trump, the billionaire former president and putative 2024 Republican presidential nominee, has told a New York state appellate court that he is not able to post a bond fully securing the enormous judgment awarded against him in the recent civil fraud trial.

I love this law...

1. To appeal, you have to post a bond in the amount of the judgment
2. The judgment is half a billion dollars
3. No one has that kind of cash!
4. Sorry, Charlie.

[Renauda]

Maybe Trump’s two friends Vladimir Putin and Viktor Orban, can lend him an invisible hand in this regard.

[Jolly]

Federal case?

[George K]

@Jolly said in Trump loses in NY:

Federal case?

Some, like McCarthy, think he has an 8th amendment case to be made. Since the fine is so high (and capricious), his right to appeal has, for all practical purposes, been denied.

[Mik]

Agreed.

[Renauda]

The Duke of Trumpster might want to consider taking out a reverse mortgage on Mar-a-Lago Castle. Given his age he should qualify.

[George K]

Trump's bond reduced from half a billion (or so) to about a sixth of billion:

https://apnews.com/article/trump-civil-fraud-case-verdict-penalty-appeal-8447c48d0436083737204b13401438d2

For the sake of comparison, Madoff's bond was $10 million.

SBF's BAIL was about half of Trump's bond was.