Hand the man a pen
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I don’t disagree about machines and their vulnerabilities, all testing and security notwithstanding… but “a vote the public can trust” is laughable. Trump created an election fraud narrative, pumped it up with lies, and fooled a good chunk of the country to believe the election was stolen when time after time after time after time the claims in 2020 were debunked.
I’ve said many times in my life one of the most annoying things is to defend yourself against a false allegation. To spend time and money just to return to the status quo / truth, is annoying.
It reminds me of a recent experience I had with Honda… brought our van back for a voluntary recall for an issue we were not having but followed their recommendations. Their service ended up breaking 2 things which I found after I got home. So I had to spend 2 more trips, time off work, childcare adjustments, and lots of waiting as they fixed the issues …. All just to get the van back to a state it was in before all of that. Lots of effort just to get back to the starting line.
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Whether or not Trump believes the claims, it should be fairly obvious to anybody who isn't hopelessly lost that Trump's claims of election fraud say much more about him than they do about the security of the US electoral process.
Should potential weaknesses be remedied? Of course. But deliberately undermining the populations confidence in the electoral process simply because he lost the election is a terrible thing to do. The fact that people buy in to his bullshit is pretty sad.
I was only joking
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Whether or not Trump believes the claims, it should be fairly obvious to anybody who isn't hopelessly lost that Trump's claims of election fraud say much more about him than they do about the security of the US electoral process.
Should potential weaknesses be remedied? Of course. But deliberately undermining the populations confidence in the electoral process simply because he lost the election is a terrible thing to do. The fact that people buy in to his bullshit is pretty sad.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Hand the man a pen:
undermining the populations confidence in the electoral process simply because he lost the election is a terrible thing to do
Yes, and it's been going on for as long as I've been following this stuff, because DIEBOLD!!
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Hand the man a pen:
undermining the populations confidence in the electoral process simply because he lost the election is a terrible thing to do
Yes, and it's been going on for as long as I've been following this stuff, because DIEBOLD!!
@George-K said in Hand the man a pen:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Hand the man a pen:
undermining the populations confidence in the electoral process simply because he lost the election is a terrible thing to do
Yes, and it's been going on for as long as I've been following this stuff, because DIEBOLD!!
OK, but I don't think I've ever experienced a general election in any of the three countries I've lived where the loser refused to accept the result. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard the type of claims that were made in 2020. We can all find examples of claims of election fraud, some of them may even have been valid, but this was something different, and no amount of whataboutism is going to change that.
And then Trump and some of his supporters claim the US is becoming a banana republic, as though this behaviour had nothing to do with that possibility.
I was only joking
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@George-K said in Hand the man a pen:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Hand the man a pen:
undermining the populations confidence in the electoral process simply because he lost the election is a terrible thing to do
Yes, and it's been going on for as long as I've been following this stuff, because DIEBOLD!!
OK, but I don't think I've ever experienced a general election in any of the three countries I've lived where the loser refused to accept the result. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard the type of claims that were made in 2020. We can all find examples of claims of election fraud, some of them may even have been valid, but this was something different, and no amount of whataboutism is going to change that.
And then Trump and some of his supporters claim the US is becoming a banana republic, as though this behaviour had nothing to do with that possibility.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Hand the man a pen:
@George-K said in Hand the man a pen:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Hand the man a pen:
And then Trump and some of his supporters claim the US is becoming a banana republic, as though this behaviour had nothing to do with that possibility.
Exactly. The whole “we have no faith in our elections!” narrative only exists because they made up false allegations to justify the landslide loss. It’s a circular narrative.
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Yes. Fair elections are just horse shit. Never mind the machine being hacked in a courtroom. Never mind the over 17,000 probable illegals (no ID) that voted in Arizona. Never mind that we've had over 1200 convictions for voter fraud:
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud
All you are worried about is CYA on your Orange Man Bad mental illness.
You really, really need to educate yourself on what happens in most nations when a significant percentage of the population no longer thinks elections are fair. Now, I want you to masticate on those examples and ask yourself what nation on the face of the earth has the most firearms? I'll give you the answer...There are over 120 firearms in private possession by every 100 Americans. Or, as the Japanese knew, a gun behind every blade of grass.
Now, if you've got two brain cells to rub together, that simple fact ought to scare the hell out of you. No matter what political spectrum you may fall on, NOBODY wants a major problem by disaffected voters determined to obtain justice.
Ask your FBI buddies this: If the entire January 6 pre-attendance (80,000) and rally had been determined to overthrow the government and had shown up armed to the teeth, what would have been the outcome?
I think I'd rather have fair and transparent elections.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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The Trump lies were deplorable. At the same time you will not be able to convince me that there weren’t serious problems. And I’m not talking about the odd widower that sent in an absentee ballot from his dead wife for Trump…
Philadelphia alone has had numerous cases of election officials busted for ballot stuffing numbering in the thousands. It’s so prevalent that that it has to be endemic to the system. Many former ACORN workers found their way into the Philadelphia system. You cannot ever convince me of the results from that city being legit.
The Brad
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Yes. Fair elections are just horse shit. Never mind the machine being hacked in a courtroom. Never mind the over 17,000 probable illegals (no ID) that voted in Arizona. Never mind that we've had over 1200 convictions for voter fraud:
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud
All you are worried about is CYA on your Orange Man Bad mental illness.
You really, really need to educate yourself on what happens in most nations when a significant percentage of the population no longer thinks elections are fair. Now, I want you to masticate on those examples and ask yourself what nation on the face of the earth has the most firearms? I'll give you the answer...There are over 120 firearms in private possession by every 100 Americans. Or, as the Japanese knew, a gun behind every blade of grass.
Now, if you've got two brain cells to rub together, that simple fact ought to scare the hell out of you. No matter what political spectrum you may fall on, NOBODY wants a major problem by disaffected voters determined to obtain justice.
Ask your FBI buddies this: If the entire January 6 pre-attendance (80,000) and rally had been determined to overthrow the government and had shown up armed to the teeth, what would have been the outcome?
I think I'd rather have fair and transparent elections.
@Jolly said in Hand the man a pen:
Yes. Fair elections are just horse shit. Never mind the machine being hacked in a courtroom. Never mind the over 17,000 probable illegals (no ID) that voted in Arizona. Never mind that we've had over 1200 convictions for voter fraud:
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud
All you are worried about is CYA on your Orange Man Bad mental illness.
You really, really need to educate yourself on what happens in most nations when a significant percentage of the population no longer thinks elections are fair. Now, I want you to masticate on those examples and ask yourself what nation on the face of the earth has the most firearms? I'll give you the answer...There are over 120 firearms in private possession by every 100 Americans. Or, as the Japanese knew, a gun behind every blade of grass.
Now, if you've got two brain cells to rub together, that simple fact ought to scare the hell out of you. No matter what political spectrum you may fall on, NOBODY wants a major problem by disaffected voters determined to obtain justice.
Ask your FBI buddies this: If the entire January 6 pre-attendance (80,000) and rally had been determined to overthrow the government and had shown up armed to the teeth, what would have been the outcome?
I think I'd rather have fair and transparent elections.
Emphasis mine.
This is my whole point. It is dangerous for a President to refuse to accept his (landslide) loss and go on a long tour of false claims to help create a sense of election illegitimacy. This is exactly why I have no problem with any impeachment, charge, or whatever thrown at him. Again, imagine if Obama lost in 2012 and did that, how up in arms (literally?) you'd be!
Are there problems in each election? Sure. But it's not the best approach when the guy who lost makes claim after claim that is debunked and then his loyalists claim he's right because of the random election issues here and there (executed by both sides, btw).
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There weren't just a few problems last election. As LuFin pointed out, look at the absolute mess in Philly. Ask George about Chicago. Look at the Zuckbucks debacle. Address the 17,000 votes in Arizona. What about those 1200 people convicted of election fraud?
All of this points to a clear and present danger in the quality of results in the voting system.
Handwaving, or the "everybody does it" defense simply does not work.
Fix the damn system.
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I mean, literally the first one I looked into, the 17k votes in Arizona. Here's the fact check:
There is no evidence that thousands of duplicate ballots were discovered in Maricopa County. There are no credible news reports about such a finding and a 2021 Republican-backed audit of the election found no evidence of fraud.
The same audit found there were 17,126 duplicate images of ballot envelopes – not actual ballots. The post appears to be conflating those two.
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Ok, also looked at the 1200 election fraud convictions. It looks like:
In 2012 there were 63.
In 2016 there were 65.
In 2020 there were 18.
That is from the Heritage Foundation's own database that sums all 1200 election fraud convictions over the years.
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I'm comfortable knowing that there always has been, and always will be, some negligible level of fraud by voters on both sides.
I am glad to see 2020 was the most secure and audited election EVAH and audits actually found Biden had more votes when re-counted and found more fraud activity by Trump voters than Biden voters.
Did I want Biden to win? No. But it is far more alarming that the loser created this massive election distrust fake narrative and refusal to accept the reality that he lost a "most popular" contest. That is much more of a threat to our country than a few attempts at double voting.
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I'm comfortable knowing that there always has been, and always will be, some negligible level of fraud by voters on both sides.
I am glad to see 2020 was the most secure and audited election EVAH and audits actually found Biden had more votes when re-counted and found more fraud activity by Trump voters than Biden voters.
Did I want Biden to win? No. But it is far more alarming that the loser created this massive election distrust fake narrative and refusal to accept the reality that he lost a "most popular" contest. That is much more of a threat to our country than a few attempts at double voting.
@89th said in Hand the man a pen:
I'm comfortable knowing that there always has been, and always will be, some negligible level of fraud by voters on both sides.
I am glad to see 2020 was the most secure and audited election EVAH and audits actually found Biden had more votes when re-counted and found more fraud activity by Trump voters than Biden voters.
Did I want Biden to win? No. But it is far more alarming that the loser created this massive election distrust fake narrative and refusal to accept the reality that he lost a "most popular" contest. That is much more of a threat to our country than a few attempts at double voting.
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I'm comfortable knowing that there always has been, and always will be, some negligible level of fraud by voters on both sides.
I am glad to see 2020 was the most secure and audited election EVAH and audits actually found Biden had more votes when re-counted and found more fraud activity by Trump voters than Biden voters.
Did I want Biden to win? No. But it is far more alarming that the loser created this massive election distrust fake narrative and refusal to accept the reality that he lost a "most popular" contest. That is much more of a threat to our country than a few attempts at double voting.
@89th said in Hand the man a pen:
I'm comfortable knowing that there always has been, and always will be, some negligible level of fraud by voters on both sides.
I am glad to see 2020 was the most secure and audited election EVAH and audits actually found Biden had more votes when re-counted and found more fraud activity by Trump voters than Biden voters.
Did I want Biden to win? No. But it is far more alarming that the loser created this massive election distrust fake narrative and refusal to accept the reality that he lost a "most popular" contest. That is much more of a threat to our country than a few attempts at double voting.
Ok, if your wife was screwing around on you, how many guys would you be comfortable with? One? Three? A five -guy gangbang on Sunday afternoon?
Maybe there are some things where zero fraud is tolerated...
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Quite the strawman (or should I say, straw-men) to chase, LOL.
No one wants fraud, obviously. My point is it will always happen to some negligible degree, by both sides... but the bigger danger is a President who makes up a narrative because he lost, and now years later people are still trying to make claims that have been debunked BY republican audits!
