Hand the man a pen
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Yes. Fair elections are just horse shit. Never mind the machine being hacked in a courtroom. Never mind the over 17,000 probable illegals (no ID) that voted in Arizona. Never mind that we've had over 1200 convictions for voter fraud:
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud
All you are worried about is CYA on your Orange Man Bad mental illness.
You really, really need to educate yourself on what happens in most nations when a significant percentage of the population no longer thinks elections are fair. Now, I want you to masticate on those examples and ask yourself what nation on the face of the earth has the most firearms? I'll give you the answer...There are over 120 firearms in private possession by every 100 Americans. Or, as the Japanese knew, a gun behind every blade of grass.
Now, if you've got two brain cells to rub together, that simple fact ought to scare the hell out of you. No matter what political spectrum you may fall on, NOBODY wants a major problem by disaffected voters determined to obtain justice.
Ask your FBI buddies this: If the entire January 6 pre-attendance (80,000) and rally had been determined to overthrow the government and had shown up armed to the teeth, what would have been the outcome?
I think I'd rather have fair and transparent elections.
@Jolly said in Hand the man a pen:
Yes. Fair elections are just horse shit. Never mind the machine being hacked in a courtroom. Never mind the over 17,000 probable illegals (no ID) that voted in Arizona. Never mind that we've had over 1200 convictions for voter fraud:
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud
All you are worried about is CYA on your Orange Man Bad mental illness.
You really, really need to educate yourself on what happens in most nations when a significant percentage of the population no longer thinks elections are fair. Now, I want you to masticate on those examples and ask yourself what nation on the face of the earth has the most firearms? I'll give you the answer...There are over 120 firearms in private possession by every 100 Americans. Or, as the Japanese knew, a gun behind every blade of grass.
Now, if you've got two brain cells to rub together, that simple fact ought to scare the hell out of you. No matter what political spectrum you may fall on, NOBODY wants a major problem by disaffected voters determined to obtain justice.
Ask your FBI buddies this: If the entire January 6 pre-attendance (80,000) and rally had been determined to overthrow the government and had shown up armed to the teeth, what would have been the outcome?
I think I'd rather have fair and transparent elections.
Emphasis mine.
This is my whole point. It is dangerous for a President to refuse to accept his (landslide) loss and go on a long tour of false claims to help create a sense of election illegitimacy. This is exactly why I have no problem with any impeachment, charge, or whatever thrown at him. Again, imagine if Obama lost in 2012 and did that, how up in arms (literally?) you'd be!
Are there problems in each election? Sure. But it's not the best approach when the guy who lost makes claim after claim that is debunked and then his loyalists claim he's right because of the random election issues here and there (executed by both sides, btw).
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There weren't just a few problems last election. As LuFin pointed out, look at the absolute mess in Philly. Ask George about Chicago. Look at the Zuckbucks debacle. Address the 17,000 votes in Arizona. What about those 1200 people convicted of election fraud?
All of this points to a clear and present danger in the quality of results in the voting system.
Handwaving, or the "everybody does it" defense simply does not work.
Fix the damn system.
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I mean, literally the first one I looked into, the 17k votes in Arizona. Here's the fact check:
There is no evidence that thousands of duplicate ballots were discovered in Maricopa County. There are no credible news reports about such a finding and a 2021 Republican-backed audit of the election found no evidence of fraud.
The same audit found there were 17,126 duplicate images of ballot envelopes – not actual ballots. The post appears to be conflating those two.
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Ok, also looked at the 1200 election fraud convictions. It looks like:
In 2012 there were 63.
In 2016 there were 65.
In 2020 there were 18.
That is from the Heritage Foundation's own database that sums all 1200 election fraud convictions over the years.
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I'm comfortable knowing that there always has been, and always will be, some negligible level of fraud by voters on both sides.
I am glad to see 2020 was the most secure and audited election EVAH and audits actually found Biden had more votes when re-counted and found more fraud activity by Trump voters than Biden voters.
Did I want Biden to win? No. But it is far more alarming that the loser created this massive election distrust fake narrative and refusal to accept the reality that he lost a "most popular" contest. That is much more of a threat to our country than a few attempts at double voting.
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I'm comfortable knowing that there always has been, and always will be, some negligible level of fraud by voters on both sides.
I am glad to see 2020 was the most secure and audited election EVAH and audits actually found Biden had more votes when re-counted and found more fraud activity by Trump voters than Biden voters.
Did I want Biden to win? No. But it is far more alarming that the loser created this massive election distrust fake narrative and refusal to accept the reality that he lost a "most popular" contest. That is much more of a threat to our country than a few attempts at double voting.
@89th said in Hand the man a pen:
I'm comfortable knowing that there always has been, and always will be, some negligible level of fraud by voters on both sides.
I am glad to see 2020 was the most secure and audited election EVAH and audits actually found Biden had more votes when re-counted and found more fraud activity by Trump voters than Biden voters.
Did I want Biden to win? No. But it is far more alarming that the loser created this massive election distrust fake narrative and refusal to accept the reality that he lost a "most popular" contest. That is much more of a threat to our country than a few attempts at double voting.
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I'm comfortable knowing that there always has been, and always will be, some negligible level of fraud by voters on both sides.
I am glad to see 2020 was the most secure and audited election EVAH and audits actually found Biden had more votes when re-counted and found more fraud activity by Trump voters than Biden voters.
Did I want Biden to win? No. But it is far more alarming that the loser created this massive election distrust fake narrative and refusal to accept the reality that he lost a "most popular" contest. That is much more of a threat to our country than a few attempts at double voting.
@89th said in Hand the man a pen:
I'm comfortable knowing that there always has been, and always will be, some negligible level of fraud by voters on both sides.
I am glad to see 2020 was the most secure and audited election EVAH and audits actually found Biden had more votes when re-counted and found more fraud activity by Trump voters than Biden voters.
Did I want Biden to win? No. But it is far more alarming that the loser created this massive election distrust fake narrative and refusal to accept the reality that he lost a "most popular" contest. That is much more of a threat to our country than a few attempts at double voting.
Ok, if your wife was screwing around on you, how many guys would you be comfortable with? One? Three? A five -guy gangbang on Sunday afternoon?
Maybe there are some things where zero fraud is tolerated...
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Quite the strawman (or should I say, straw-men) to chase, LOL.
No one wants fraud, obviously. My point is it will always happen to some negligible degree, by both sides... but the bigger danger is a President who makes up a narrative because he lost, and now years later people are still trying to make claims that have been debunked BY republican audits!
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@89th said in Hand the man a pen:
I'm comfortable knowing that there always has been, and always will be, some negligible level of fraud by voters on both sides.
I am glad to see 2020 was the most secure and audited election EVAH and audits actually found Biden had more votes when re-counted and found more fraud activity by Trump voters than Biden voters.
Did I want Biden to win? No. But it is far more alarming that the loser created this massive election distrust fake narrative and refusal to accept the reality that he lost a "most popular" contest. That is much more of a threat to our country than a few attempts at double voting.
Ok, if your wife was screwing around on you, how many guys would you be comfortable with? One? Three? A five -guy gangbang on Sunday afternoon?
Maybe there are some things where zero fraud is tolerated...
@Jolly said in Hand the man a pen:
Ok, if your wife was screwing around on you, how many guys would you be comfortable with? One? Three? A five -guy gangbang on Sunday afternoon?
Yeah, but the follow-up to the last election more closely resembled somebody having a public melt-down over his wife cheating with every player in the Dallas Cowboys when what she actually did was say 'That Bobby Ewing is quite good-looking'.
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Quite the strawman (or should I say, straw-men) to chase, LOL.
No one wants fraud, obviously. My point is it will always happen to some negligible degree, by both sides... but the bigger danger is a President who makes up a narrative because he lost, and now years later people are still trying to make claims that have been debunked BY republican audits!
@89th said in Hand the man a pen:
Quite the strawman (or should I say, straw-men) to chase, LOL.
No one wants fraud, obviously. My point is it will always happen to some negligible degree, by both sides... but the bigger danger is a President who makes up a narrative because he lost, and now years later people are still trying to make claims that have been debunked BY republican audits!
Here's the issue that you keep missing...Trump isn't making anything up. He believes he was cheated. He vigorously pursued every legal and political avenue he could to be reelected. But at the end of the day, even believing he was rooked, we had a mostly peaceful transfer of power. You can argue that if you wish.
You want to keep that cheat argument from going anywhere? You run the fairest elections on the planet. Yet, some fight actively against things like voter ID, same day registration or noncitizens voting.
We can do better. We must do better.
Or one day, there will be a reckoning.
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The doctor's analogy above is quite fitting. I chuckled.
Yes Trump vigorously pursued every legal and political avenue he could to
be reelectedkeep Biden from being sworn in. When he realized it was too late, mostly because his false election fraud narratives helped inspire a storming of the Capitol, he didn't even attend the inauguration. What class.Yes we can do better, in fact we ARE doing better. There is less fraud now than ever before. The only reckoning will be built on falsehoods, similar to Jan 6.
Too bad Trump didn't just say "Oh well, I lost and you'll see what you get with Sleepy Joe. I'll see you again in 4 years." and honestly... he'd probably win in 2024. But after his antics, all I can imagine is he's lost voters and gained none. We'll see, I've been wrong before!
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Ok, also looked at the 1200 election fraud convictions. It looks like:
In 2012 there were 63.
In 2016 there were 65.
In 2020 there were 18.
That is from the Heritage Foundation's own database that sums all 1200 election fraud convictions over the years.
@89th said in Hand the man a pen:
Ok, also looked at the 1200 election fraud convictions. It looks like:
In 2012 there were 63.
In 2016 there were 65.
In 2020 there were 18.
That is from the Heritage Foundation's own database that sums all 1200 election fraud convictions over the years.
That would actually tend to suggest there was a fair amount of uncaught/unprosecuted fraud in 2020.
The Brad
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The doctor's analogy above is quite fitting. I chuckled.
Yes Trump vigorously pursued every legal and political avenue he could to
be reelectedkeep Biden from being sworn in. When he realized it was too late, mostly because his false election fraud narratives helped inspire a storming of the Capitol, he didn't even attend the inauguration. What class.Yes we can do better, in fact we ARE doing better. There is less fraud now than ever before. The only reckoning will be built on falsehoods, similar to Jan 6.
Too bad Trump didn't just say "Oh well, I lost and you'll see what you get with Sleepy Joe. I'll see you again in 4 years." and honestly... he'd probably win in 2024. But after his antics, all I can imagine is he's lost voters and gained none. We'll see, I've been wrong before!
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The doctor's analogy above is quite fitting. I chuckled.
Yes Trump vigorously pursued every legal and political avenue he could to
be reelectedkeep Biden from being sworn in. When he realized it was too late, mostly because his false election fraud narratives helped inspire a storming of the Capitol, he didn't even attend the inauguration. What class.Yes we can do better, in fact we ARE doing better. There is less fraud now than ever before. The only reckoning will be built on falsehoods, similar to Jan 6.
Too bad Trump didn't just say "Oh well, I lost and you'll see what you get with Sleepy Joe. I'll see you again in 4 years." and honestly... he'd probably win in 2024. But after his antics, all I can imagine is he's lost voters and gained none. We'll see, I've been wrong before!
@89th said in Hand the man a pen:
he didn't even attend the inauguration
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I’m sorry I hold the president to a slightly higher standard of attendance when it’s his office he’s transitioning to the next person. It’s a sacred tradition. Would’ve gone a long way had he attended after what he incited.
