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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Learning English is hard

Learning English is hard

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  • KlausK Offline
    KlausK Offline
    Klaus
    wrote on last edited by
    #18

    Every language has exceptions to its rules, and things you just have to know, which you can't derive from any rules.

    English is a rather simple language to learn, compared to most other (Western) languages.

    Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
    • Doctor PhibesD Offline
      Doctor PhibesD Offline
      Doctor Phibes
      wrote on last edited by
      #19

      If English was that hard, the Brits would all speak French or Welsh or something.

      I was only joking

      1 Reply Last reply
      • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

        @LuFins-Dad said in Learning English is hard:

        @Aqua-Letifer said in Learning English is hard:

        @LuFins-Dad said in Learning English is hard:

        @Aqua-Letifer said in Learning English is hard:

        @89th said in Learning English is hard:

        I wonder how those here, who had to learn English, like @Klaus and @Doctor-Phibes feel about this.

        My 5 year old is learning how to read. She's doing quite good well.

        Anyway... I am reminded very often now about how inconsistent the language is. Row row row your boat? Yes it has "ow" in it, but it sounds like "roe", not "r-ow". Oh how to spell 4, it's four, but just ignore the u. It's like for.... which rhymes with door, but that has two o's in it. Know (which is the same as No) what I mean?

        Same here, she's reading her first stories. I try to get her to sound things out but as you illustrate, that's probably a very stupid way to go.

        Not really. Phonics is still the most effective method to teach reading https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/03/11/phonics-schools-students-read-learn/

        I really don't see how. Rough dough plough and all that. I don't see how that makes any sense to a kid.

        But, that's what we do because it's (1) different from the school, so, hey, broader strategies and (2) shit it's how I was taught, so it's at least something I know.

        Simple. You’re focusing on the exceptions,

        No, I'm focusing on the language I studied. And it's not simple at all.

        House, Spouse, Doubt, Stout, About and Shout don't sound like Soup, You, Coupe or Route.

        Brief, Siege, Field and Niece don't sound like Science, Ancient, Efficient or Patient.

        Cat, Ball, Father and War.
        Bread, Steak and Heart.
        Son, Women and Womb.

        English is one of the most if not the very most inconsistent language on the planet when it comes to pronunciation inconsistency.

        LuFins DadL Offline
        LuFins DadL Offline
        LuFins Dad
        wrote on last edited by
        #20

        @Aqua-Letifer said in Learning English is hard:

        @LuFins-Dad said in Learning English is hard:

        @Aqua-Letifer said in Learning English is hard:

        @LuFins-Dad said in Learning English is hard:

        @Aqua-Letifer said in Learning English is hard:

        @89th said in Learning English is hard:

        I wonder how those here, who had to learn English, like @Klaus and @Doctor-Phibes feel about this.

        My 5 year old is learning how to read. She's doing quite good well.

        Anyway... I am reminded very often now about how inconsistent the language is. Row row row your boat? Yes it has "ow" in it, but it sounds like "roe", not "r-ow". Oh how to spell 4, it's four, but just ignore the u. It's like for.... which rhymes with door, but that has two o's in it. Know (which is the same as No) what I mean?

        Same here, she's reading her first stories. I try to get her to sound things out but as you illustrate, that's probably a very stupid way to go.

        Not really. Phonics is still the most effective method to teach reading https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/03/11/phonics-schools-students-read-learn/

        I really don't see how. Rough dough plough and all that. I don't see how that makes any sense to a kid.

        But, that's what we do because it's (1) different from the school, so, hey, broader strategies and (2) shit it's how I was taught, so it's at least something I know.

        Simple. You’re focusing on the exceptions,

        No, I'm focusing on the language I studied. And it's not simple at all.

        House, Spouse, Doubt, Stout, About and Shout don't sound like Soup, You, Coupe or Route.

        Brief, Siege, Field and Niece don't sound like Science, Ancient, Efficient or Patient.

        Cat, Ball, Father and War.
        Bread, Steak and Heart.
        Son, Women and Womb.

        English is one of the most if not the very most inconsistent language on the planet when it comes to pronunciation inconsistency.

        Well, we could always adopt pitch accents to the language… I’m sure that will clear things right up…

        The Brad

        1 Reply Last reply
        • Doctor PhibesD Offline
          Doctor PhibesD Offline
          Doctor Phibes
          wrote on last edited by
          #21

          Around here there's a town named Warwick. The way they pronounce it sets my teeth on edge every time I hear it. They actually say both 'w''s. There's no way they did that when they first named it.

          I was only joking

          George KG 1 Reply Last reply
          • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

            Around here there's a town named Warwick. The way they pronounce it sets my teeth on edge every time I hear it. They actually say both 'w''s. There's no way they did that when they first named it.

            George KG Offline
            George KG Offline
            George K
            wrote on last edited by
            #22

            @Doctor-Phibes said in Learning English is hard:

            Around here there's a town named Warwick. The way they pronounce it sets my teeth on edge every time I hear it. They actually say both 'w''s. There's no way they did that when they first named it.

            You guys sure do throw in a lot of unnecessary letters. I suppose it adds a certain colour to the language.

            I mean, Worcestershire. Gloucester...

            Now, pronounce ghoti.

            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

            Doctor PhibesD CopperC 2 Replies Last reply
            • George KG George K

              @Doctor-Phibes said in Learning English is hard:

              Around here there's a town named Warwick. The way they pronounce it sets my teeth on edge every time I hear it. They actually say both 'w''s. There's no way they did that when they first named it.

              You guys sure do throw in a lot of unnecessary letters. I suppose it adds a certain colour to the language.

              I mean, Worcestershire. Gloucester...

              Now, pronounce ghoti.

              Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor Phibes
              wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
              #23

              @George-K said in Learning English is hard:

              @Doctor-Phibes said in Learning English is hard:

              Around here there's a town named Warwick. The way they pronounce it sets my teeth on edge every time I hear it. They actually say both 'w''s. There's no way they did that when they first named it.

              You guys sure do throw in a lot of unnecessary letters. I suppose it adds a certain colour to the language.

              I mean, Worcestershire. Gloucester...

              I think it's more likely that we took out or replaced some of the letters, but not all. Worcestershire was derived from the middle-English Wyrcestreschire.

              My favourite town name is Cholmondeley in Cheshire, normally pronounced 'Chumley', but there's others - Leominster, near where my wife's father came from is pronounced 'Lemster' by the locals. I still get it wrong.

              I was only joking

              1 Reply Last reply
              • George KG George K

                @Doctor-Phibes said in Learning English is hard:

                Around here there's a town named Warwick. The way they pronounce it sets my teeth on edge every time I hear it. They actually say both 'w''s. There's no way they did that when they first named it.

                You guys sure do throw in a lot of unnecessary letters. I suppose it adds a certain colour to the language.

                I mean, Worcestershire. Gloucester...

                Now, pronounce ghoti.

                CopperC Offline
                CopperC Offline
                Copper
                wrote on last edited by
                #24

                @George-K said in Learning English is hard:

                Now, pronounce ghoti.

                The Riddler used that in a comic book I remember from somewhere around the mid-60s. Batman figured it out right away.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • KlausK Klaus

                  Every language has exceptions to its rules, and things you just have to know, which you can't derive from any rules.

                  English is a rather simple language to learn, compared to most other (Western) languages.

                  Aqua LetiferA Offline
                  Aqua LetiferA Offline
                  Aqua Letifer
                  wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
                  #25

                  @Klaus said in Learning English is hard:

                  Every language has exceptions to its rules, and things you just have to know, which you can't derive from any rules.

                  I'm not saying that English is unique because it has phonetic exceptions and other languages don't. I'm saying that even compared to other languages, English has more phonetic exceptions than many others.

                  In part this is because other languages haven't been broken and rebuilt as many times as English has.

                  English is a rather simple language to learn, compared to most other (Western) languages.

                  Says the guy who first knew German before he learned English. It's not a coincidence you think that.

                  Please love yourself.

                  Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                  • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                    @Klaus said in Learning English is hard:

                    Every language has exceptions to its rules, and things you just have to know, which you can't derive from any rules.

                    I'm not saying that English is unique because it has phonetic exceptions and other languages don't. I'm saying that even compared to other languages, English has more phonetic exceptions than many others.

                    In part this is because other languages haven't been broken and rebuilt as many times as English has.

                    English is a rather simple language to learn, compared to most other (Western) languages.

                    Says the guy who first knew German before he learned English. It's not a coincidence you think that.

                    Doctor PhibesD Offline
                    Doctor PhibesD Offline
                    Doctor Phibes
                    wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                    #26

                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Learning English is hard:

                    In part this is because other languages haven't been broken and rebuilt as many times as English has.

                    I think you might be on to something. At least, I've noticed a lot of you chaps speak broken English.

                    I was only joking

                    Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                    • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Learning English is hard:

                      In part this is because other languages haven't been broken and rebuilt as many times as English has.

                      I think you might be on to something. At least, I've noticed a lot of you chaps speak broken English.

                      Aqua LetiferA Offline
                      Aqua LetiferA Offline
                      Aqua Letifer
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #27

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in Learning English is hard:

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Learning English is hard:

                      In part this is because other languages haven't been broken and rebuilt as many times as English has.

                      I think you might be on to something. At least, I've noticed a lot of you chaps speak broken English.

                      Ours is older, though. 🙂

                      Please love yourself.

                      Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                      • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                        @Doctor-Phibes said in Learning English is hard:

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Learning English is hard:

                        In part this is because other languages haven't been broken and rebuilt as many times as English has.

                        I think you might be on to something. At least, I've noticed a lot of you chaps speak broken English.

                        Ours is older, though. 🙂

                        Doctor PhibesD Offline
                        Doctor PhibesD Offline
                        Doctor Phibes
                        wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                        #28

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Learning English is hard:

                        Ours is older, though.

                        Like your leaders.

                        And no, that's not necessarily true where I come from. Plenty of people aren't speaking received pronunciation etc. up in't North.

                        I was only joking

                        Aqua LetiferA RenaudaR 2 Replies Last reply
                        • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Learning English is hard:

                          Ours is older, though.

                          Like your leaders.

                          And no, that's not necessarily true where I come from. Plenty of people aren't speaking received pronunciation etc. up in't North.

                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                          Aqua Letifer
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #29

                          @Doctor-Phibes said in Learning English is hard:

                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Learning English is hard:

                          Ours is older, though.

                          Like your leaders.

                          And no, that's not necessarily true where I come from. Plenty of people aren't speaking received pronunciation etc. up in't North.

                          We've had a reform, though. You all haven't.

                          Please love yourself.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                            @Aqua-Letifer said in Learning English is hard:

                            Ours is older, though.

                            Like your leaders.

                            And no, that's not necessarily true where I come from. Plenty of people aren't speaking received pronunciation etc. up in't North.

                            RenaudaR Offline
                            RenaudaR Offline
                            Renauda
                            wrote on last edited by Renauda
                            #30

                            @Doctor-Phibes

                            And no, that's not necessarily true where I come from. Plenty of people aren't speaking received pronunciation etc. up in't North.

                            Ayup, thay’d be knowin’ nowt about ‘at.

                            Elbows up!

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