Trump's Taxes
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Progressivism makes no sense and has no messaging power unless it is based on a notion that things as they are, are unacceptable. Hatred of the country is built in to the foundations of the messaging, though of course nobody is eager to own that label, so they won't say it explicitly or anything. Maybe in private company among friends.
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@Larry I think we just need to agree to disagree.
If I could stand in front of a group of people in 1820 and say the following:
woman should have the right to vote!!!
black people should have the same rights as white people!
woman should be allowed to go to college!!
Even if you do not own land, you should be allowed to vote!!
Native Americans should have the right to vote!!
etcI think some people would say - "Jennifer, you hate the US and are trying to destroy it!" Just because I had a different viewpoint, does not mean that I hate the country, and because others have a different viewpoint does not mean that they hate the country.
Larry, the impression you give to me is that anyone who disagrees with your view of the USA hates the country and wants to destroy it. And that I think is 100% false.
It is very possible (even probably) that that impression is incorrect, but that is the way you come across (to me). I apologize if I am misreading you.
Anyway, i am glad that we can disagree and "shake hands" afterwords. It helps me to learn something when hearing different viewpoints.
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Taiwan Girl, I suppose you are correct. Or, you always seem to look on the bright side.
In terms of mainland China, I suppose it's also true that the communists love China, and Hong Kong and Taiwan need to feel the love as well. Or are you on the fence regarding that, as well? I mean, far left / communists, same thing, Marxism ideology whether one realizes it or not. And, tearing down statues etc., isn't that like Maoism, so that's OK too?
I'm just asking you rather directly, whether you have a double-standard or not. -
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@Rainman said in Trump's Taxes:
Taiwan Girl, I suppose you are correct. Or, you always seem to look on the bright side.
In terms of mainland China, I suppose it's also true that the communists love China, and Hong Kong and Taiwan need to feel the love as well. Or are you on the fence regarding that, as well? I mean, far left / communists, same thing, Marxism ideology whether one realizes it or not. And, tearing down statues etc., isn't that like Maoism, so that's OK too?
I'm just asking you rather directly, whether you have a double-standard or not.There are (small amount of) people in Taiwan who definitely want to integrate with mainland China.
I 100%+++ absolutely 100%++++ positive DISAGREE with them. And I would do what I can to prevent that from happening.
But, I do not think that they HATE Taiwan. They feel that joining with mainland China is the best thing for Taiwan. It may be wrong and I may strongly disagree, and I can work against them, but I would never say that they hate Taiwan. They want Taiwan to change and their "vision" of Taiwan is much different than mine.
Just like in the US. IF someone says that they want national healthcare, I do not think that they HATE the US and are trying to destroy it. Their vision is different than others - maybe right, maybe wrong.
I will agree that there are probably a small number of people in the US who do hate the country (example = 11 Sept bombers). But that is not the ones we are talking about in this thread.
To me, to say that Vice President Biden or President Obama HATES the country is just ridiculous.
They have as much love for the country as President Trump, as any of the Republic senators, as any of the Democrat senators, etc. Different visions but all love the country.
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@taiwan_girl TG, As always, your comments are reasonable and rational, and I enjoyed reading them.
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Education is extremely important.
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I fail to see how trying to argue that, given the long list of pure hate driven bull shit our country is having to put up with, refusing to acknowledge the obvious hate for this nation, its institutions, and its values, is not hate passes for rational thought.
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@Horace For purposes of discourse, I don't see why it's necessary to be dogmatic about applying such an incendiary word, that's all. Some of the people, yes, could be haters, some not. When you slap "hate" on as all-encompassing, you slam closed the gates to any open-minded consideration within yourself (not you necessarily) or any hope for meeting of minds. "Hate" signifies "Talk to the hand!" Where does that get anybody?
Sorry, I didn't rightly intend to go off on that flight.
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@Catseye3 said in Trump's Taxes:
@Horace For purposes of discourse, I don't see why it's necessary to be dogmatic about applying such an incendiary word, that's all.
Left-leaning pop culture accepted the violent overthrow and occupation of a neighborhood in the CHAZ occupation. I don't think that was a light action and I think it merits a heavy word to describe the motivations.
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@Catseye3 said in Trump's Taxes:
@Larry Even more complicated is that hate takes many forms, and often goes unrecognized by the hater within himself. It's so easy to accuse another of harboring hate while remaining unaware of it in oneself.
That's all well and good, please feel free to point it out if and when you see it. But being a word cop is pretty boring.
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I admit that I hate the destruction of the American way of life and American values. I readily and proudly admit that. I do not hate people who are intellectually lacking in the ability to figure out the source of that destruction, nor do I hate the people who refuse to face up to the obvious, for whatever reason that is. But I damn sure will not sit back and let their crippled logic stand as if it has some sort of merit just to go with the flow. Too many people are doing that already.
