"Rich Men North of Richmond"
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It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Your joke about the trees was almost as good, though.
Please love yourself.
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Hang on, let me set up a camera in the trees to make it seem like I'm singing by myself but really it's going to record me so I can post it on the internet.
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It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Your joke about the trees was almost as good, though.
@Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?
Because they've had their own struggle. They don't have impressive beards, admittedly, at least not that we can see, but they've undoubtedly worked bloody hard to get to that gazillion dollar mansion.
I was only joking
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@Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?
Because they've had their own struggle. They don't have impressive beards, admittedly, at least not that we can see, but they've undoubtedly worked bloody hard to get to that gazillion dollar mansion.
@Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
@Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?
Who exactly are we talking about here? To what extent do those people make their own stuff and try to distribute it?
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@Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
@Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?
Who exactly are we talking about here? To what extent do those people make their own stuff and try to distribute it?
@Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
@Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
@Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?
Who exactly are we talking about here? To what extent do those people make their own stuff and try to distribute it?
You don't think they are in the arena because they have a production team? You don't think they've had to put things on the line? Taylor Swift writes her own stuff as far as I know.
OK, you can argue that it's over-produced pablum, but really that's just your opinion. Like 89 saying he's got a whiny voice and you're saying don't be a critic unless you've done it yourself. So by that argument you can't criticize Taylor Swift until you've done what she's done.
I was only joking
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It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Your joke about the trees was almost as good, though.
@Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
TR
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@Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
TR
I was only joking
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@Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
@Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
@Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?
Who exactly are we talking about here? To what extent do those people make their own stuff and try to distribute it?
You don't think they are in the arena because they have a production team? You don't think they've had to put things on the line? Taylor Swift writes her own stuff as far as I know.
OK, you can argue that it's over-produced pablum, but really that's just your opinion. Like 89 saying he's got a whiny voice and you're saying don't be a critic unless you've done it yourself. So by that argument you can't criticize Taylor Swift until you've done what she's done.
@Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
You don't think they are in the arena because they have a production team? You don't think they've had to put things on the line? Taylor Swift writes her own stuff as far as I know.
Of course they're in the arena. They play in fucking arenas. You can't get more literal than that.
OK, you can argue that it's over-produced pablum, but really that's just your opinion.
Of course it's only my opinion. But because you choose to be selective with what you like to remember about people, I'll refer you to what I said about that jackass who got famous for chugging an Ocean Spray bottle on a longboard.
Always look for the cultural trends that defy sense. There are people far, far more talented than Swift or Spears who never get nearly that famous. Some of that's a little luck and timing, but some of it's what happens when you tap into something people feel they need. Quite fucking obviously Spears and Swift have done that.
Like 89 saying he's got a whiny voice and you're saying don't be a critic unless you've done it yourself. So by that argument you can't criticize Taylor Swift until you've done what she's done.
You inject yourself into this conversation, completely ignore my questions and then decide to speak for me with your own answers. You sure you need me at all for this? Looks like you're doing a fine job pointing out how silly your persona of me is.
What do you mean by "done"? Write my own music and try to get a record contract? Absolutely correct, I have not done that.
Make things for public consumption? Yeah, I've done that. Let's compare. Tell me what you've made and distributed, TODAY, and I'll tell you what I've made and distributed, today, then we'll see who's really in the arena and who isn't.
Please love yourself.
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He’s on your list - Teddy Roosevelt
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@Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
You don't think they are in the arena because they have a production team? You don't think they've had to put things on the line? Taylor Swift writes her own stuff as far as I know.
Of course they're in the arena. They play in fucking arenas. You can't get more literal than that.
OK, you can argue that it's over-produced pablum, but really that's just your opinion.
Of course it's only my opinion. But because you choose to be selective with what you like to remember about people, I'll refer you to what I said about that jackass who got famous for chugging an Ocean Spray bottle on a longboard.
Always look for the cultural trends that defy sense. There are people far, far more talented than Swift or Spears who never get nearly that famous. Some of that's a little luck and timing, but some of it's what happens when you tap into something people feel they need. Quite fucking obviously Spears and Swift have done that.
Like 89 saying he's got a whiny voice and you're saying don't be a critic unless you've done it yourself. So by that argument you can't criticize Taylor Swift until you've done what she's done.
You inject yourself into this conversation, completely ignore my questions and then decide to speak for me with your own answers. You sure you need me at all for this? Looks like you're doing a fine job pointing out how silly your persona of me is.
What do you mean by "done"? Write my own music and try to get a record contract? Absolutely correct, I have not done that.
Make things for public consumption? Yeah, I've done that. Let's compare. Tell me what you've made and distributed, TODAY, and I'll tell you what I've made and distributed, today, then we'll see who's really in the arena and who isn't.
@Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
@Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
You don't think they are in the arena because they have a production team? You don't think they've had to put things on the line? Taylor Swift writes her own stuff as far as I know.
Of course they're in the arena. They play in fucking arenas. You can't get more literal than that.
OK, you can argue that it's over-produced pablum, but really that's just your opinion.
Of course it's only my opinion. But because you choose to be selective with what you like to remember about people, I'll refer you to what I said about that jackass who got famous for chugging an Ocean Spray bottle on a longboard.
Always look for the cultural trends that defy sense. There are people far, far more talented than Swift or Spears who never get nearly that famous. Some of that's a little luck and timing, but some of it's what happens when you tap into something people feel they need. Quite fucking obviously Spears and Swift have done that.
Like 89 saying he's got a whiny voice and you're saying don't be a critic unless you've done it yourself. So by that argument you can't criticize Taylor Swift until you've done what she's done.
You inject yourself into this conversation, completely ignore my questions and then decide to speak for me with your own answers. You sure you need me at all for this? Looks like you're doing a fine job pointing out how silly your persona of me is.
What do you mean by "done"? Write my own music and try to get a record contract? Absolutely correct, I have not done that.
Make things for public consumption? Yeah, I've done that. Let's compare. Tell me what you've made and distributed, TODAY, and I'll tell you what I've made and distributed, today, then we'll see who's really in the arena and who isn't.
I think you might have misunderstood the point I was attempting to make.
You appeared to be telling 89 that he had no right to criticise the beardy bloke because he hadn't done this sort of thing himself. I just asked the question whether the same standard applied to people who criticise more commercially sophisticated ventures?
Maybe I misunderstood your point.
As far as me injecting myself into the conversation goes, OK, if you don't want somebody else butting into your public chastisement of 89, that's fine. I'll stop getting involved in what you considered to be a 2-way conversation. However if you really want a 2 way conversation, maybe a public message board isn't the best place to have it.
I was only joking
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@Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?
Because they've had their own struggle. They don't have impressive beards, admittedly, at least not that we can see, but they've undoubtedly worked bloody hard to get to that gazillion dollar mansion.
Now that you’ve mentioned Brittany Spears, I came across this cover of one her smash hits.
I would say he gets it right:
Link to video -
Now that you’ve mentioned Brittany Spears, I came across this cover of one her smash hits.
I would say he gets it right:
Link to video@Renauda said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
Now that you’ve mentioned Brittany Spears, I came across this cover of one her smash hits.
I would say he gets it right:
That's great
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Have been really getting back into English folk artists since last spring. Reacquainting myself with the likes of Richard Thompson and listening to some of the lesser known ones from the 60s and 70s like Anne Briggs and Martin Carthy.
Have really developed a liking for June Tabor and the late Lal Waterson.
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Have been really getting back into English folk artists since last spring. Reacquainting myself with the likes of Richard Thompson and listening to some of the lesser known ones from the 60s and 70s like Anne Briggs and Martin Carthy.
Have really developed a liking for June Tabor and the late Lal Waterson.
@Renauda said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
Have been really getting back into English folk artists since last spring. Reacquainting myself with the likes of Richard Thompson and listening to some of the lesser known ones from the 60s and 70s like Anne Briggs and Martin Carthy.
Have really developed a liking for June Tabor and the late Lal Waterson.
A marginally funny story - I reconnected with an old school friend via Facebook a couple of years back. It turns out she married a member of The Houghton Weavers, who are an extremely unfashionable Lancashire folk/comedy group who had a relatively brief moment of fame in the late 1970's when they had their own national TV show. Since then my FB feed keeps getting inundated with suggestions to go and see them and others play in various dens of iniquity in the north of England.
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Thompson is a remarkable artist. I believe he's considered one of the truly great guitarists.
If you like covers...
Link to video -
Thompson is a remarkable artist. I believe he's considered one of the truly great guitarists.
If you like covers...
Link to videoI love it.
Years ago at our local Folk Music Festival, I attended a 2 hour folk guitar workshop in which Richard Thompson, Bert Jansch, John Renbourn and Martin Simpson all shared the stage. It was other worldly how they seamlessly played together and held the audience their musical spell. It was one of those sessions you just never wanted to end.
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That is such a nice version of the song.
I love the lyric about the bombers turning into butterflies, because it's so oddly reminiscent of one of my dad's stories - my grandmother pointed upwards and said to him 'look, they look like beautiful silver butterflies' - my dad, being a 12 year old boy, correctly told her they were actually Heinkel 111's.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
@Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
You don't think they are in the arena because they have a production team? You don't think they've had to put things on the line? Taylor Swift writes her own stuff as far as I know.
Of course they're in the arena. They play in fucking arenas. You can't get more literal than that.
OK, you can argue that it's over-produced pablum, but really that's just your opinion.
Of course it's only my opinion. But because you choose to be selective with what you like to remember about people, I'll refer you to what I said about that jackass who got famous for chugging an Ocean Spray bottle on a longboard.
Always look for the cultural trends that defy sense. There are people far, far more talented than Swift or Spears who never get nearly that famous. Some of that's a little luck and timing, but some of it's what happens when you tap into something people feel they need. Quite fucking obviously Spears and Swift have done that.
Like 89 saying he's got a whiny voice and you're saying don't be a critic unless you've done it yourself. So by that argument you can't criticize Taylor Swift until you've done what she's done.
You inject yourself into this conversation, completely ignore my questions and then decide to speak for me with your own answers. You sure you need me at all for this? Looks like you're doing a fine job pointing out how silly your persona of me is.
What do you mean by "done"? Write my own music and try to get a record contract? Absolutely correct, I have not done that.
Make things for public consumption? Yeah, I've done that. Let's compare. Tell me what you've made and distributed, TODAY, and I'll tell you what I've made and distributed, today, then we'll see who's really in the arena and who isn't.
I think you might have misunderstood the point I was attempting to make.
You appeared to be telling 89 that he had no right to criticise the beardy bloke because he hadn't done this sort of thing himself. I just asked the question whether the same standard applied to people who criticise more commercially sophisticated ventures?
Maybe I misunderstood your point.
As far as me injecting myself into the conversation goes, OK, if you don't want somebody else butting into your public chastisement of 89, that's fine. I'll stop getting involved in what you considered to be a 2-way conversation. However if you really want a 2 way conversation, maybe a public message board isn't the best place to have it.
@Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":
You appeared to be telling 89 that he had no right to criticise the beardy bloke because he hadn't done this sort of thing himself. I just asked the question whether the same standard applied to people who criticise more commercially sophisticated ventures?
That’s how I read it too btw. All I said is I wasn’t a fan of the whiny first song and the 2nd song was pretty good but I didn’t care for the repetitive note structure. Guitar sounded nice though.
