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The New Coffee Room

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  3. "Rich Men North of Richmond"

"Rich Men North of Richmond"

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  • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

    So, has this guy taken over from sea shanties? I was quite enjoying that internet fad, and now apparently it's this.

    I guess it's back to Michael Brecker and Chris Potter for me.

    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua Letifer
    wrote on last edited by
    #74

    @Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

    So, has this guy taken over from sea shanties? I was quite enjoying that internet fad, and now apparently it's this.

    You know those two are related, right?

    Please love yourself.

    Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
    • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

      @Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

      So, has this guy taken over from sea shanties? I was quite enjoying that internet fad, and now apparently it's this.

      You know those two are related, right?

      Doctor PhibesD Offline
      Doctor PhibesD Offline
      Doctor Phibes
      wrote on last edited by
      #75

      @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

      You know those two are related, right?

      Well, there's commonalities, certainly.

      My dad used to sing me shanties when I was a baby, and he did the same thing for my grandchildren, which was probably why I enjoyed them so much.

      I don't really like this latest thing so much, not really my bag.

      I was only joking

      Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
      • RainmanR Offline
        RainmanR Offline
        Rainman
        wrote on last edited by
        #76

        Phibes, if you remember the names of some of your favorites that we might not be familiar with, it would be enjoyable to listen to. Sea shanties. hmmm. Specific to where your family is from, maybe?

        Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
        • RainmanR Rainman

          Phibes, if you remember the names of some of your favorites that we might not be familiar with, it would be enjoyable to listen to. Sea shanties. hmmm. Specific to where your family is from, maybe?

          Doctor PhibesD Offline
          Doctor PhibesD Offline
          Doctor Phibes
          wrote on last edited by
          #77

          @Rainman said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

          Phibes, if you remember the names of some of your favorites that we might not be familiar with, it would be enjoyable to listen to. Sea shanties. hmmm. Specific to where your family is from, maybe?

          Nothing unusual, just the 'Drunken Sailor', 'Blow the man down', that kind of stuff. My dad was from Twickenham, west of London, so not much of a naval tradition there 🙂

          I was only joking

          1 Reply Last reply
          • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

            @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

            You know those two are related, right?

            Well, there's commonalities, certainly.

            My dad used to sing me shanties when I was a baby, and he did the same thing for my grandchildren, which was probably why I enjoyed them so much.

            I don't really like this latest thing so much, not really my bag.

            Aqua LetiferA Offline
            Aqua LetiferA Offline
            Aqua Letifer
            wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
            #78

            @Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

            @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

            You know those two are related, right?

            Well, there's commonalities, certainly.

            Yeah, not exactly in the musical genre but in terms of how it's produced. I think both are a symptom of people getting more and more starved for real things without knowing that's what's going on with them. Otherwise you're left to conclude that "sea shanties as a trend" is just some random happenstance thing, and that's completely untrue. They never are.

            Please love yourself.

            Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
            • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

              @Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

              @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

              You know those two are related, right?

              Well, there's commonalities, certainly.

              Yeah, not exactly in the musical genre but in terms of how it's produced. I think both are a symptom of people getting more and more starved for real things without knowing that's what's going on with them. Otherwise you're left to conclude that "sea shanties as a trend" is just some random happenstance thing, and that's completely untrue. They never are.

              Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor Phibes
              wrote on last edited by
              #79

              @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

              Yeah, not exactly in the musical genre but in terms of how it's produced. I think both are a symptom of people getting more and more starved for real things without knowing that's what's going on with them. Otherwise you're left to conclude that "sea shanties as a trend" is just some random happenstance thing, and that's completely untrue. They never are.

              'Folk music that doesn't suck'.

              Blues seems to have gone the way of the dinosaurs, jazz is now taught in colleges like classical music, country is essentially just over-produced pop music sung by a guy wearing a cowboy hat and boots, urban black music mostly seems to be about bitches and shooting people and what-have-you, which is a bit depressing.

              I can see why something a bit more genuine might appeal.

              I was only joking

              1 Reply Last reply
              • 89th8 Offline
                89th8 Offline
                89th
                wrote on last edited by
                #80

                The 2nd video was a bit better, nice music from the guitar and lyrics, although he still does that overly repetitive thing with his voice hitting the same 3-4 notes over and over that drove me a little off with his first hit.

                Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                • 89th8 89th

                  The 2nd video was a bit better, nice music from the guitar and lyrics, although he still does that overly repetitive thing with his voice hitting the same 3-4 notes over and over that drove me a little off with his first hit.

                  Aqua LetiferA Offline
                  Aqua LetiferA Offline
                  Aqua Letifer
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #81

                  @89th said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                  The 2nd video was a bit better, nice music from the guitar and lyrics, although he still does that overly repetitive thing with his voice hitting the same 3-4 notes over and over that drove me a little off with his first hit.

                  Okay now do yours.

                  Please love yourself.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • 89th8 Offline
                    89th8 Offline
                    89th
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #82

                    Hang on, let me set up a camera in the trees to make it seem like I'm singing by myself but really it's going to record me so I can post it on the internet.

                    CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
                    • Aqua LetiferA Offline
                      Aqua LetiferA Offline
                      Aqua Letifer
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #83

                      It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

                      Your joke about the trees was almost as good, though.

                      Please love yourself.

                      Doctor PhibesD jon-nycJ 2 Replies Last reply
                      • 89th8 89th

                        Hang on, let me set up a camera in the trees to make it seem like I'm singing by myself but really it's going to record me so I can post it on the internet.

                        CopperC Offline
                        CopperC Offline
                        Copper
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #84

                        @89th said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                        by myself

                        Has he ever sung without dogs?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                          It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

                          Your joke about the trees was almost as good, though.

                          Doctor PhibesD Offline
                          Doctor PhibesD Offline
                          Doctor Phibes
                          wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                          #85

                          @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                          It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

                          Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?

                          Because they've had their own struggle. They don't have impressive beards, admittedly, at least not that we can see, but they've undoubtedly worked bloody hard to get to that gazillion dollar mansion.

                          I was only joking

                          Aqua LetiferA RenaudaR 2 Replies Last reply
                          • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                            @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                            It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

                            Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?

                            Because they've had their own struggle. They don't have impressive beards, admittedly, at least not that we can see, but they've undoubtedly worked bloody hard to get to that gazillion dollar mansion.

                            Aqua LetiferA Offline
                            Aqua LetiferA Offline
                            Aqua Letifer
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #86

                            @Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                            @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                            It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

                            Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?

                            Who exactly are we talking about here? To what extent do those people make their own stuff and try to distribute it?

                            Please love yourself.

                            Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                            • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                              @Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                              @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                              It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

                              Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?

                              Who exactly are we talking about here? To what extent do those people make their own stuff and try to distribute it?

                              Doctor PhibesD Offline
                              Doctor PhibesD Offline
                              Doctor Phibes
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #87

                              @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                              @Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                              @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                              It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

                              Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?

                              Who exactly are we talking about here? To what extent do those people make their own stuff and try to distribute it?

                              You don't think they are in the arena because they have a production team? You don't think they've had to put things on the line? Taylor Swift writes her own stuff as far as I know.

                              OK, you can argue that it's over-produced pablum, but really that's just your opinion. Like 89 saying he's got a whiny voice and you're saying don't be a critic unless you've done it yourself. So by that argument you can't criticize Taylor Swift until you've done what she's done.

                              I was only joking

                              Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                              • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                                It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

                                Your joke about the trees was almost as good, though.

                                jon-nycJ Offline
                                jon-nycJ Offline
                                jon-nyc
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #88

                                @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                                It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

                                TR

                                Only non-witches get due process.

                                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                  @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                                  It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

                                  TR

                                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                  Doctor Phibes
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #89

                                  @jon-nyc said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                                  TR

                                  WTF?

                                  https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/TR

                                  I was only joking

                                  jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                                    @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                                    @Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                                    @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                                    It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

                                    Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?

                                    Who exactly are we talking about here? To what extent do those people make their own stuff and try to distribute it?

                                    You don't think they are in the arena because they have a production team? You don't think they've had to put things on the line? Taylor Swift writes her own stuff as far as I know.

                                    OK, you can argue that it's over-produced pablum, but really that's just your opinion. Like 89 saying he's got a whiny voice and you're saying don't be a critic unless you've done it yourself. So by that argument you can't criticize Taylor Swift until you've done what she's done.

                                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                    Aqua Letifer
                                    wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
                                    #90

                                    @Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                                    You don't think they are in the arena because they have a production team? You don't think they've had to put things on the line? Taylor Swift writes her own stuff as far as I know.

                                    Of course they're in the arena. They play in fucking arenas. You can't get more literal than that.

                                    OK, you can argue that it's over-produced pablum, but really that's just your opinion.

                                    Of course it's only my opinion. But because you choose to be selective with what you like to remember about people, I'll refer you to what I said about that jackass who got famous for chugging an Ocean Spray bottle on a longboard.

                                    Always look for the cultural trends that defy sense. There are people far, far more talented than Swift or Spears who never get nearly that famous. Some of that's a little luck and timing, but some of it's what happens when you tap into something people feel they need. Quite fucking obviously Spears and Swift have done that.

                                    Like 89 saying he's got a whiny voice and you're saying don't be a critic unless you've done it yourself. So by that argument you can't criticize Taylor Swift until you've done what she's done.

                                    You inject yourself into this conversation, completely ignore my questions and then decide to speak for me with your own answers. You sure you need me at all for this? Looks like you're doing a fine job pointing out how silly your persona of me is.

                                    What do you mean by "done"? Write my own music and try to get a record contract? Absolutely correct, I have not done that.

                                    Make things for public consumption? Yeah, I've done that. Let's compare. Tell me what you've made and distributed, TODAY, and I'll tell you what I've made and distributed, today, then we'll see who's really in the arena and who isn't.

                                    Please love yourself.

                                    Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                                      @jon-nyc said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                                      TR

                                      WTF?

                                      https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/TR

                                      jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #91

                                      @Doctor-Phibes

                                      He’s on your list - Teddy Roosevelt

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                                        @Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                                        You don't think they are in the arena because they have a production team? You don't think they've had to put things on the line? Taylor Swift writes her own stuff as far as I know.

                                        Of course they're in the arena. They play in fucking arenas. You can't get more literal than that.

                                        OK, you can argue that it's over-produced pablum, but really that's just your opinion.

                                        Of course it's only my opinion. But because you choose to be selective with what you like to remember about people, I'll refer you to what I said about that jackass who got famous for chugging an Ocean Spray bottle on a longboard.

                                        Always look for the cultural trends that defy sense. There are people far, far more talented than Swift or Spears who never get nearly that famous. Some of that's a little luck and timing, but some of it's what happens when you tap into something people feel they need. Quite fucking obviously Spears and Swift have done that.

                                        Like 89 saying he's got a whiny voice and you're saying don't be a critic unless you've done it yourself. So by that argument you can't criticize Taylor Swift until you've done what she's done.

                                        You inject yourself into this conversation, completely ignore my questions and then decide to speak for me with your own answers. You sure you need me at all for this? Looks like you're doing a fine job pointing out how silly your persona of me is.

                                        What do you mean by "done"? Write my own music and try to get a record contract? Absolutely correct, I have not done that.

                                        Make things for public consumption? Yeah, I've done that. Let's compare. Tell me what you've made and distributed, TODAY, and I'll tell you what I've made and distributed, today, then we'll see who's really in the arena and who isn't.

                                        Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                        Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                        Doctor Phibes
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #92

                                        @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                                        @Doctor-Phibes said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                                        You don't think they are in the arena because they have a production team? You don't think they've had to put things on the line? Taylor Swift writes her own stuff as far as I know.

                                        Of course they're in the arena. They play in fucking arenas. You can't get more literal than that.

                                        OK, you can argue that it's over-produced pablum, but really that's just your opinion.

                                        Of course it's only my opinion. But because you choose to be selective with what you like to remember about people, I'll refer you to what I said about that jackass who got famous for chugging an Ocean Spray bottle on a longboard.

                                        Always look for the cultural trends that defy sense. There are people far, far more talented than Swift or Spears who never get nearly that famous. Some of that's a little luck and timing, but some of it's what happens when you tap into something people feel they need. Quite fucking obviously Spears and Swift have done that.

                                        Like 89 saying he's got a whiny voice and you're saying don't be a critic unless you've done it yourself. So by that argument you can't criticize Taylor Swift until you've done what she's done.

                                        You inject yourself into this conversation, completely ignore my questions and then decide to speak for me with your own answers. You sure you need me at all for this? Looks like you're doing a fine job pointing out how silly your persona of me is.

                                        What do you mean by "done"? Write my own music and try to get a record contract? Absolutely correct, I have not done that.

                                        Make things for public consumption? Yeah, I've done that. Let's compare. Tell me what you've made and distributed, TODAY, and I'll tell you what I've made and distributed, today, then we'll see who's really in the arena and who isn't.

                                        I think you might have misunderstood the point I was attempting to make.

                                        You appeared to be telling 89 that he had no right to criticise the beardy bloke because he hadn't done this sort of thing himself. I just asked the question whether the same standard applied to people who criticise more commercially sophisticated ventures?

                                        Maybe I misunderstood your point.

                                        As far as me injecting myself into the conversation goes, OK, if you don't want somebody else butting into your public chastisement of 89, that's fine. I'll stop getting involved in what you considered to be a 2-way conversation. However if you really want a 2 way conversation, maybe a public message board isn't the best place to have it.

                                        I was only joking

                                        89th8 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in "Rich Men North of Richmond":

                                          It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

                                          Do we apply the same standard to people who make rude remarks about Britney Spears or Taylor Swift videos?

                                          Because they've had their own struggle. They don't have impressive beards, admittedly, at least not that we can see, but they've undoubtedly worked bloody hard to get to that gazillion dollar mansion.

                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          Renauda
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #93

                                          @Doctor-Phibes

                                          Now that you’ve mentioned Brittany Spears, I came across this cover of one her smash hits.

                                          I would say he gets it right:

                                          Link to video

                                          Elbows up!

                                          Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
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