Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field
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Yes, going down to an FiO2 of 50% is a good thing. However, there are a couple of things to consider.
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Oxygen, at any high concentration (above 50% or so) is toxic and can cause lung injury. You really want to keep the FiO2 as low as possible while maintaining adequate blood SpO2.
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The fact that he still needs such high concentrations 36 hours later says that he sustained some kind of lung injury. Did his aspirate his cheeseburger while CPR was ongoing?
Just spitballing here, but those are a couple of thoughts.
Perhaps later today we'll know more about his cerebral function. However, if his pulmonary status is questionable, as I think it might be, they might want to wait until that gets stabilized before doing anything aggressive wrt his brain.
@George-K said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
However, there are a couple of things to consider.
Last night the same uncle spoke with another press rep and mentioned they had turned Damar over (facedown) to help with blood in his lungs. He did not elaborate.
Yes, with my very limited knowledge, I would agree with your cautious outlook. 30 hours is of concern, especially combined with 4 mins of CPR. The best prognosis would seem to include a very long recovery.
I remember from my CPR training from long ago that CPR administered after trauma has a very low success rate, that its efficacy mostly is with medical.
Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka
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@George-K Could you please explain “aspirate his cheeseburger” in non-technical language that I might understand?
@LuFins-Dad said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
@George-K Could you please explain “aspirate his cheeseburger” in non-technical language that I might understand?
I would doubt that he hadn't eaten anything before the game, and probably had a full stomach. It's not unusual to see whatever is in the stomach come back to "revisit" the mouth during CPR. Then, as chest compressions continue, and ventilation with a mask continues, that stuff can go down the trachea causing a pneumonitis.
This is the reason you want to get the patient intubated as quickly as possible - to protect the airway and lungs.
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@George-K said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
However, there are a couple of things to consider.
Last night the same uncle spoke with another press rep and mentioned they had turned Damar over (facedown) to help with blood in his lungs. He did not elaborate.
Yes, with my very limited knowledge, I would agree with your cautious outlook. 30 hours is of concern, especially combined with 4 mins of CPR. The best prognosis would seem to include a very long recovery.
I remember from my CPR training from long ago that CPR administered after trauma has a very low success rate, that its efficacy mostly is with medical.
@Catseye3 said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
they had turned Damar over (facedown) to help with blood in his lungs
"Proning" patients has become a thing. It was just starting to be used when I retired, and was shown to be very effective in improving oxygenation. By taking advantage of gravity, and directing the blood to where the air in the lungs goes, you improve overall oxygenation.
It became VERY popular during the COVID year.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/articles/the-art-of-proning
Proning, which is when the patient is placed on their stomach, is a normal standard of care in patients with acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), and the research showed this to be an effective tool with patients with COVID-19.
"ARDS" is "Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome," or sometimes called "Acute Lung Injury." It means something bad, usually very bad, has happened to the lung tissue, and it's not able to transfer oxygen to the blood.
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@Mik said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
Not anticipating a good outcome.
Yeah . . . I've been wondering whether the measures being taken now are for PR. The hospital is aware the whole country is watching, and they want to be able to say they took every possible step to save the young man's life -- indeed, did do so. But they don't have hope.
Maybe that's just me. The staff isn't talking, so we don't really know anything.
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Here is what one guy predicts will happen on the game:
"Here is what I believe the NFL will do.
Cincinnati Bengals-Bills won't be made up. Under any circumstances. The league will not push the playoff schedule back a week in order to play one game next week.
The MNF game won't be declared a tie. The Bengals won't be awarded the win. The Bills won't forfeit. The game simply won't be played. The two teams will play 16 games, while the other 30 teams will play 17.
The reality is there is no perfect solution. Some team(s) will come out on the short end of the stick.
What happens if the game is not made up:
The Bengals win AFC North....no matter what happens Sunday.
If they beat Baltimore they win the division by 2.5 games. (Bengals 12-4/Ravens 10-7).
If they lose to Baltimore they still win the division by .5 game.
(Bengals 11-5/Ravens 11-6).
The Ravens will be livid. Understandably. There is a chance they could beat the Bengals twice and yet lose the division by a half game because the Bengals played one less game.
The NFL won't announce that MNF won't be made up until AFTER the conclusion of games on Sunday. Announcing the decision prior would eliminate any drama of the AFC North title.
What's left? Seeding.
I'll try to keep this as simple as possible.
No 1 seed:
The Bengals would be eliminated from contention for the No. 1 seed if MNF is not made up. They would not be able to catch Kansas City (13-3), no matter the result of Chiefs vs Raiders on Sunday.
No. 2 seed:
The No. 2 seed would still be in play for the Bengals.
The Bengals could edge out the Bills for the No. 2 seed IF the Bengals beat the Ravens AND the Bills lose to Patriots.
That would leave the Bengals and Bills both at 12-4. The Bengals would win by the 5th tiebreaker...Strength of Victory (combined winning percentage of the opponents a team has beaten).....
The Bengals currently hold a .483-.479 advantage in SOV. " -
Here is what one guy predicts will happen on the game:
"Here is what I believe the NFL will do.
Cincinnati Bengals-Bills won't be made up. Under any circumstances. The league will not push the playoff schedule back a week in order to play one game next week.
The MNF game won't be declared a tie. The Bengals won't be awarded the win. The Bills won't forfeit. The game simply won't be played. The two teams will play 16 games, while the other 30 teams will play 17.
The reality is there is no perfect solution. Some team(s) will come out on the short end of the stick.
What happens if the game is not made up:
The Bengals win AFC North....no matter what happens Sunday.
If they beat Baltimore they win the division by 2.5 games. (Bengals 12-4/Ravens 10-7).
If they lose to Baltimore they still win the division by .5 game.
(Bengals 11-5/Ravens 11-6).
The Ravens will be livid. Understandably. There is a chance they could beat the Bengals twice and yet lose the division by a half game because the Bengals played one less game.
The NFL won't announce that MNF won't be made up until AFTER the conclusion of games on Sunday. Announcing the decision prior would eliminate any drama of the AFC North title.
What's left? Seeding.
I'll try to keep this as simple as possible.
No 1 seed:
The Bengals would be eliminated from contention for the No. 1 seed if MNF is not made up. They would not be able to catch Kansas City (13-3), no matter the result of Chiefs vs Raiders on Sunday.
No. 2 seed:
The No. 2 seed would still be in play for the Bengals.
The Bengals could edge out the Bills for the No. 2 seed IF the Bengals beat the Ravens AND the Bills lose to Patriots.
That would leave the Bengals and Bills both at 12-4. The Bengals would win by the 5th tiebreaker...Strength of Victory (combined winning percentage of the opponents a team has beaten).....
The Bengals currently hold a .483-.479 advantage in SOV. "@Mik said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
Here is what one guy predicts will happen on the game:
"Here is what I believe the NFL will do.
Cincinnati Bengals-Bills won't be made up. Under any circumstances. The league will not push the playoff schedule back a week in order to play one game next week.
The MNF game won't be declared a tie. The Bengals won't be awarded the win. The Bills won't forfeit. The game simply won't be played. The two teams will play 16 games, while the other 30 teams will play 17.
The reality is there is no perfect solution. Some team(s) will come out on the short end of the stick.
What happens if the game is not made up:
The Bengals win AFC North....no matter what happens Sunday.
If they beat Baltimore they win the division by 2.5 games. (Bengals 12-4/Ravens 10-7).
If they lose to Baltimore they still win the division by .5 game.
(Bengals 11-5/Ravens 11-6).
The Ravens will be livid. Understandably. There is a chance they could beat the Bengals twice and yet lose the division by a half game because the Bengals played one less game.
The NFL won't announce that MNF won't be made up until AFTER the conclusion of games on Sunday. Announcing the decision prior would eliminate any drama of the AFC North title.
What's left? Seeding.
I'll try to keep this as simple as possible.
No 1 seed:
The Bengals would be eliminated from contention for the No. 1 seed if MNF is not made up. They would not be able to catch Kansas City (13-3), no matter the result of Chiefs vs Raiders on Sunday.
No. 2 seed:
The No. 2 seed would still be in play for the Bengals.
The Bengals could edge out the Bills for the No. 2 seed IF the Bengals beat the Ravens AND the Bills lose to Patriots.
That would leave the Bengals and Bills both at 12-4. The Bengals would win by the 5th tiebreaker...Strength of Victory (combined winning percentage of the opponents a team has beaten).....
The Bengals currently hold a .483-.479 advantage in SOV. "The lack of clarity going into the weekend causes ALOT of problems for multiple teams.
The Bengals could be seeded anywhere from the #1 Seed to the 5th Seed depending on what shakes out. Now, if the Bengals knew they were for sure the #2 or #3 seed, they could make an informed decision on how much they want to play their starters in Week 18. If I knew this game wasn't going to drastically alter my seed, I wouldn't want my team to get into a slugfest for no gain one week before the playoffs. I'd sit Burrow, Chase, etc... Or at the very least have a game plan that involved dumping the ball quickly... If, otoh, I knew that I was still in the mix for the #1 seed and could fall as low as the #5, then I'm all in...
The Ravens could be seeded as high as the #2 seed or as low as the #5. They have an injured starting QB that is on a day-by-day basis. Do they want to risk him OR his very qualified backup in a game that may not make one bit of difference if they win? If they knew they could still win the division, then they play to get the home-field advantage for 1-2 games. If they know they aren't in the mix for the division then of course they are going to rest their starters.
The Bills are in practically the same situation as the Bengals. They don't have to worry about losing the division, but the decision of resting starters or playing for the home-field advantage and bye week is the same conundrum the Bengals face... And their decisions have ripple effects on the Patriots, Steelers, and Dolphins.
The league needs to provide some clarity going into the weekend.
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Seems like they wouldn’t need to delay a full week, they could replay it midweek if necessary.
@jon-nyc said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
Seems like they wouldn’t need to delay a full week, they could replay it midweek if necessary.
By agreement with the NFLPA, they need at least 4 days between two games and need at least 7 days before a 3rd game. They couldn't have fit the week 17 game, week 18 game, and then been ready for WildCard Weekend by the 14th. It also would have put both teams at a competitive disadvantage for their Wildcard playoff games.
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@jon-nyc said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
Seems like they wouldn’t need to delay a full week, they could replay it midweek if necessary.
By agreement with the NFLPA, they need at least 4 days between two games and need at least 7 days before a 3rd game. They couldn't have fit the week 17 game, week 18 game, and then been ready for WildCard Weekend by the 14th. It also would have put both teams at a competitive disadvantage for their Wildcard playoff games.
@LuFins-Dad Yeah, but desperate times…. Maybe they’d negotiate a waiver. Seems like there are no great answers.
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If they were to delay a week, would that have to change the Super Bowl date? I seem to recall a weekend off between the championship games and the super bowl.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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If they were to delay a week, would that have to change the Super Bowl date? I seem to recall a weekend off between the championship games and the super bowl.
@jon-nyc said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
If they were to delay a week, would that have to change the Super Bowl date?
I don't see how that would be possible, given the gargantuan advertising/merchandising efforts, some of which are likely already in place.
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@jon-nyc said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
If they were to delay a week, would that have to change the Super Bowl date?
I don't see how that would be possible, given the gargantuan advertising/merchandising efforts, some of which are likely already in place.
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There is an extra week between the end of the playoffs and the Super Bowl. But to do that would mean that all 32 teams, all the fans with tickets, all travel arrangements, all the TV and radio, all the stadiums, all the involved vendors and employees would have to push everything back a week. It's just not feasible.
“I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill
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If he doesn't make it, they should replace the super bowl halftime show with his funeral. Just to keep everything in perspective.
The reaction is so arbitrary. I am very sure everybody involved in dealing with the fallout, is looking sideways at everybody else, putting their finger to the wind, trying to gauge at what point we move on in a unemotional manner and enjoy football, without the downer scaffolding of pretending to care about this man's life way more than anybody but his friends and family actually do. A strong emotional reaction to watching a man almost die on the field, in the moment, is not actual caring, and it does not last. How many hundreds of Jim Kellys are out there with pathetic qualities of life, as inside their skulls is the brain of a demented 100 year old? Not to mention the physical deterioration. All because of this game. But that's out of sight, and out of mind. This one incident is bringing an entire season to its knees, because everybody's reaction is on trial.
Education is extremely important.
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If they were to delay a week, would that have to change the Super Bowl date? I seem to recall a weekend off between the championship games and the super bowl.
@jon-nyc said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
If they were to delay a week, would that have to change the Super Bowl date? I seem to recall a weekend off between the championship games and the super bowl.
There is a "bye week" between the Conference Championships and the Superbowl. They could go ahead and move the "bye week" up and allow the Bengals and Bills to play. The league is likely just deciding whether it's worth it or if they could get away not playing the game.
My best guess? They are making no decision until after this week's games to see whether they really even need to make that decision. If the Bengals and Chiefs win and the Bills lose, then there's not really a strong need to play that game. If the Bills win, however, there will be a strong need no matter what else happens. The problem with this approach, however, is it will change the way coaches approach the last week and when/if they rest players.
Either way, there's going to be bitching. A LOT of bitching.
