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The New Coffee Room

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Taiwan

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  • HoraceH Horace

    @taiwan_girl how does a “both sides are equal” worldview hold up when you consider the China/Taiwan conflict? Or does it not apply to that situation?

    taiwan_girlT Offline
    taiwan_girlT Offline
    taiwan_girl
    wrote on last edited by
    #15

    @Horace I think it is pretty obvious that in everything but "politic speak", Taiwan and mainland China are two separate countries. Kind of like UK and USA - common language and close common culture, but two countries.

    So, Taiwan and China are equal when it is thought that they are two independent countries. They are not equal in terms of economic, military power, population, etc.

    One of the mis-arguments made by mainland China is that "Taiwan has always been part of China." Not true. There are numerous historical data which indicate otherwise.

    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
    • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

      @Horace I think it is pretty obvious that in everything but "politic speak", Taiwan and mainland China are two separate countries. Kind of like UK and USA - common language and close common culture, but two countries.

      So, Taiwan and China are equal when it is thought that they are two independent countries. They are not equal in terms of economic, military power, population, etc.

      One of the mis-arguments made by mainland China is that "Taiwan has always been part of China." Not true. There are numerous historical data which indicate otherwise.

      HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #16

      @taiwan_girl said in Taiwan:

      @Horace I think it is pretty obvious that in everything but "politic speak", Taiwan and mainland China are two separate countries. Kind of like UK and USA - common language and close common culture, but two countries.

      So, Taiwan and China are equal when it is thought that they are two independent countries. They are not equal in terms of economic, military power, population, etc.

      One of the mis-arguments made by mainland China is that "Taiwan has always been part of China." Not true. There are numerous historical data which indicate otherwise.

      Right, so those who believe Taiwan is Chinese property are deluded by their pro-China bias. But those who believe Taiwan is justly independent, base that belief in facts.

      Education is extremely important.

      taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
      • HoraceH Horace

        @taiwan_girl said in Taiwan:

        @Horace I think it is pretty obvious that in everything but "politic speak", Taiwan and mainland China are two separate countries. Kind of like UK and USA - common language and close common culture, but two countries.

        So, Taiwan and China are equal when it is thought that they are two independent countries. They are not equal in terms of economic, military power, population, etc.

        One of the mis-arguments made by mainland China is that "Taiwan has always been part of China." Not true. There are numerous historical data which indicate otherwise.

        Right, so those who believe Taiwan is Chinese property are deluded by their pro-China bias. But those who believe Taiwan is justly independent, base that belief in facts.

        taiwan_girlT Offline
        taiwan_girlT Offline
        taiwan_girl
        wrote on last edited by
        #17

        @Horace said in Taiwan:

        @taiwan_girl said in Taiwan:

        @Horace I think it is pretty obvious that in everything but "politic speak", Taiwan and mainland China are two separate countries. Kind of like UK and USA - common language and close common culture, but two countries.

        So, Taiwan and China are equal when it is thought that they are two independent countries. They are not equal in terms of economic, military power, population, etc.

        One of the mis-arguments made by mainland China is that "Taiwan has always been part of China." Not true. There are numerous historical data which indicate otherwise.

        Right, so those who believe Taiwan is Chinese property are deluded by their pro-China bias. But those who believe Taiwan is justly independent, base that belief in facts.

        Correct. I am just stating the facts.

        Just like the "meme" that is posted here often. "Prove me wrong!" LOL

        1 Reply Last reply
        • JollyJ Offline
          JollyJ Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on last edited by
          #18

          Possession is 9/10's of the law.

          The only thing standing between China and Taiwan is the U.S. 7th fleet.

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
          • JollyJ Jolly

            Possession is 9/10's of the law.

            The only thing standing between China and Taiwan is the U.S. 7th fleet.

            taiwan_girlT Offline
            taiwan_girlT Offline
            taiwan_girl
            wrote on last edited by
            #19

            @Jolly said in Taiwan:

            Possession is 9/10's of the law.

            Not sure what you mean? Are you saying that Taiwan is independent?

            Mainland China does not (and has not) really had any direct influence over Taiwan for more than 125 years, and even then, it was minimal.

            JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
            • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

              @George-K said in Taiwan:

              @Jolly said in Taiwan:

              Maybe President Joe will just give it to them...

              The US has had a long time policy called "strategic ambiguity", where we basically say that we want to maintain the status quo. My what I know, this supposed to China a pause because they (China) dont know what the US will do if China makes invasion plans, etc.

              But, while the US does provide support to Taiwan military, we also say that we support the "one China" policy.

              Really, what the guy said in Twitter has been said for a long time. Though President Biden said recently that the US would militarily come to the aid of Taiwan if China invaded

              RenaudaR Offline
              RenaudaR Offline
              Renauda
              wrote on last edited by Renauda
              #20

              @taiwan_girl

              The US has had a long time policy called "strategic ambiguity", where we basically say that we want to maintain the status quo. My what I know, this supposed to China a pause because they (China) dont know what the US will do if China makes invasion plans, etc.

              Strategic ambiguity reminds me of the Cold War military doctrine of “Flexible Response”’the US held in Europe against the USSR. Essentially it stated the US could choose the option of responding immediately to any Soviet aggression against NATO with tactical nuclear force. It was a counter to the then stated Soviet pledge not to be the first to deploy nuclear weapons in the event of conflict.

              Interesting essay on Strategic Ambiguity:

              https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/why-strategic-ambiguity-trumps-strategic-clarity-taiwan

              Elbows up!

              1 Reply Last reply
              • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                @Jolly said in Taiwan:

                Possession is 9/10's of the law.

                Not sure what you mean? Are you saying that Taiwan is independent?

                Mainland China does not (and has not) really had any direct influence over Taiwan for more than 125 years, and even then, it was minimal.

                JollyJ Offline
                JollyJ Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on last edited by
                #21

                @taiwan_girl said in Taiwan:

                @Jolly said in Taiwan:

                Possession is 9/10's of the law.

                Not sure what you mean? Are you saying that Taiwan is independent?

                Mainland China does not (and has not) really had any direct influence over Taiwan for more than 125 years, and even then, it was minimal.

                I'm saying Taiwan is independent as long as it has some backing from the Pacific assets of the U.S. The moment that China has an open pathway, they will take Taiwan in a heartbeat.

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                • CopperC Offline
                  CopperC Offline
                  Copper
                  wrote on last edited by Copper
                  #22

                  Which happens first?

                  China rules Taiwan.

                  Taiwan rules China.

                  I say it is a close call.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • JollyJ Jolly

                    @taiwan_girl said in Taiwan:

                    @Jolly said in Taiwan:

                    Possession is 9/10's of the law.

                    Not sure what you mean? Are you saying that Taiwan is independent?

                    Mainland China does not (and has not) really had any direct influence over Taiwan for more than 125 years, and even then, it was minimal.

                    I'm saying Taiwan is independent as long as it has some backing from the Pacific assets of the U.S. The moment that China has an open pathway, they will take Taiwan in a heartbeat.

                    taiwan_girlT Offline
                    taiwan_girlT Offline
                    taiwan_girl
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #23

                    @Jolly said in Taiwan:

                    @taiwan_girl said in Taiwan:

                    @Jolly said in Taiwan:

                    Possession is 9/10's of the law.

                    Not sure what you mean? Are you saying that Taiwan is independent?

                    Mainland China does not (and has not) really had any direct influence over Taiwan for more than 125 years, and even then, it was minimal.

                    I'm saying Taiwan is independent as long as it has some backing from the Pacific assets of the U.S. The moment that China has an open pathway, they will take Taiwan in a heartbeat.

                    Oh, that is for sure. Taiwan is a country of 22 million. Mainland China is a country of 1.4 Billion.

                    CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
                    • MikM Away
                      MikM Away
                      Mik
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #24

                      TG, love the new avatar!!! 😁

                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                      taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                      • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                        @Jolly said in Taiwan:

                        @taiwan_girl said in Taiwan:

                        @Jolly said in Taiwan:

                        Possession is 9/10's of the law.

                        Not sure what you mean? Are you saying that Taiwan is independent?

                        Mainland China does not (and has not) really had any direct influence over Taiwan for more than 125 years, and even then, it was minimal.

                        I'm saying Taiwan is independent as long as it has some backing from the Pacific assets of the U.S. The moment that China has an open pathway, they will take Taiwan in a heartbeat.

                        Oh, that is for sure. Taiwan is a country of 22 million. Mainland China is a country of 1.4 Billion.

                        CopperC Offline
                        CopperC Offline
                        Copper
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #25

                        @taiwan_girl said in Taiwan:

                        Taiwan is a country of 22 million. Mainland China is a country of 1.4 Billion.

                        Approximately 120 Thousand 19th century British ruled 287 Million Indians

                        Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                        • CopperC Copper

                          @taiwan_girl said in Taiwan:

                          Taiwan is a country of 22 million. Mainland China is a country of 1.4 Billion.

                          Approximately 120 Thousand 19th century British ruled 287 Million Indians

                          Doctor PhibesD Offline
                          Doctor PhibesD Offline
                          Doctor Phibes
                          wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                          #26

                          @Copper said in Taiwan:

                          Approximately 120 Thousand 19th century British ruled 287 Million Indians

                          Actually, a much smaller number of Brits did the ruling. Most Britons were busy having our faces ground into the dirt along with everybody else.

                          I was only joking

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • MikM Mik

                            TG, love the new avatar!!! 😁

                            taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girl
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #27

                            @Mik said in Taiwan:

                            TG, love the new avatar!!! 😁

                            You were the inspiration!!! :couple_with_heart:

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • AxtremusA Offline
                              AxtremusA Offline
                              Axtremus
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #28

                              China-Taiwan: Can a tech billionaire create a civilian fighting force?
                              https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-63196623

                              "... a retired tech billionaire in Taipei, white-haired and bespectacled, called the island's media to a press conference to tell them he was pledging one billion Taiwan dollars (£28m; $32m) to create a civilian army."

                              Also mentioned in the article:
                              ...
                              Taiwan's army has shrunk since the 1990s and the government has reduced mandatory service over the years - from two years to four months. There's now an active debate about extending it. For the first time in decades, polls show a majority in favour.
                              ...

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • MikM Away
                                MikM Away
                                Mik
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #29

                                It’s a very good idea to show a nation prepared to fight. That probably does more for them than American saber rattling.

                                “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • taiwan_girlT Offline
                                  taiwan_girlT Offline
                                  taiwan_girl
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #30

                                  When I was in high school and college, we had to train with guns, though we never shot them. We had to learn to open them up, clean them, close them, know how to hold them, march in formation, etc.

                                  I am pretty sure we would have been just a "speed bump" if the mainland Chinese invaded at that time. 555

                                  JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                                    When I was in high school and college, we had to train with guns, though we never shot them. We had to learn to open them up, clean them, close them, know how to hold them, march in formation, etc.

                                    I am pretty sure we would have been just a "speed bump" if the mainland Chinese invaded at that time. 555

                                    JollyJ Offline
                                    JollyJ Offline
                                    Jolly
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #31

                                    @taiwan_girl said in Taiwan:

                                    When I was in high school and college, we had to train with guns, though we never shot them. We had to learn to open them up, clean them, close them, know how to hold them, march in formation, etc.

                                    I am pretty sure we would have been just a "speed bump" if the mainland Chinese invaded at that time. 555

                                    How could you use them if you didn't shoot them?

                                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                    taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • MikM Away
                                      MikM Away
                                      Mik
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #32

                                      That is rather the whole point.

                                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • JollyJ Jolly

                                        @taiwan_girl said in Taiwan:

                                        When I was in high school and college, we had to train with guns, though we never shot them. We had to learn to open them up, clean them, close them, know how to hold them, march in formation, etc.

                                        I am pretty sure we would have been just a "speed bump" if the mainland Chinese invaded at that time. 555

                                        How could you use them if you didn't shoot them?

                                        taiwan_girlT Offline
                                        taiwan_girlT Offline
                                        taiwan_girl
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #33

                                        @Jolly said in Taiwan:

                                        @taiwan_girl said in Taiwan:

                                        When I was in high school and college, we had to train with guns, though we never shot them. We had to learn to open them up, clean them, close them, know how to hold them, march in formation, etc.

                                        I am pretty sure we would have been just a "speed bump" if the mainland Chinese invaded at that time. 555

                                        How could you use them if you didn't shoot them?

                                        Exactly. Not sure what the point was - I guess just getting us prepared. LOL

                                        @mik I think so. We would just be a slow down bump.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • AxtremusA Offline
                                          AxtremusA Offline
                                          Axtremus
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #34

                                          https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/china-says-military-held-naval-air-combat-readiness-patrol-around-taiwan-2023-08-19/

                                          Taiwan's VP stopped over and gave a speech in the US. The CCP conducts another military drill crossing the median line in the Taiwan strait.

                                          Also:

                                          Hours before the drills, U.S. President Joe Biden and the leaders of South Korea and Japan agreed at Camp David to deepen defence and economic cooperation, while reaffirming "the importance of peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait as an indispensable element of security and prosperity in the international community."

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