Texas shooting.
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@bachophile said in Texas shooting.:
Ill put in my two cents although I admit I have had this back and forth with Jolly in the past over some other horrific shooting, I certainly don't remember which one. so nothing new being added here.
Jolly you immediately put forth the mental health issue as the major issue, thus shunting gun control out of the spotlight and concentrating on the bad state of mental health in the US.
my response is twofold: one, hard to imagine that the number of people with serious and probably criminal mental health problems is so much greater in the US then in any other developed country with the same access to violent games or media, Given a certain proportion of any population will naturally harbour sociopaths and crazies, because that's the way the world has always been...no reason to think America has a greater share than anywhere else....
But even if I accept the premise that mental health is a greater problem in the US then elsewhere, then all the more reason to do everything possible to keep guns away from potential nutjobs....by drastically increasing the regulation over arms sales.
Be that as it may, I think that gun lobby proponents who use the constitution as an excuse for bearing arms (a la Lauren Boebert), seems to me that a simple reading of the original framers, maybe im an originalist??? is that arms were necessary for militias to defend a nascent nation and have no connection to the legal right of an 18 year old angry boy to buy weapons to slaughter children.
there i said it. I know I cant convince Jolly, but at least thats how I see it.
At what point do Israeli young people begin their compulsory service in the IDF? 18? At that point, do they undergo weapons training? Used to be Ghalil's, then I guess it was M4's and now I think they have Tavor's. So, at 18, they have access to assault weapons, live ammo at times and possibly much heavier weapons (grenades, mortars, etc.)
Why don't I read about Israeli young people going mad and killing other Israelis either on base with a legal weapon or with an illegal weapon purchased on the black market?
As for the militia...The militia in the U.S. is all able-bodied males 17-44 - U.S. Code Title 10; Section 248. Unless we change our Constitution, that issue is pretty cut and dried.
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@Catseye3 said in Texas shooting.:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:
Certainly guns should be considered, but maybe there's other things?
I've been toying around with something -- can't call it a concept because it's too undeveloped, but don't know what else to call it -- that might somewhat answer this.
Maybe pointing to specifics like guns or white supremacy or lust for fame or whatever is narrowing the answer down to a dangerous degree, to make everything simpler to understand -- a useless strategy that sends people haring all over the place and feeling virtuously (and getting elected) like they're accomplishing something and making themselves feel better, but not much else.
Maybe it's more useful to think of school shootings as one of many manifestations stemming from a very widespread discontent -- discontent with one's lot, feeling trapped in a society that is terribly damaged throughout, which results in many forms of lashing out, of which shootings, school or otherwise, are but one.
Some actions cause more damage and pain than others, but they all have this in common. Misery, frustration, the heartbroken belief that nothing will ever get better. The job will still suck in ten years; the marriage ditto, the leg lost in Afghanistan, the countless attempts to get clean that haven't worked, and on and on and on.
Failed expectations. Unfulfilled or broken promises.
How much of this can people, can society, take? Something eventually gives way and BAM.
We are past facile explanations, facile advice for cures. I don't know what to do about it, but I'll tell you what: Aqua is right on about the media. You want to set blame, look to the clickbait-loving slime that shovel out content that constantly reinforces and inflames an already tragic set of conditions. Those, and the goddamn social media. Jolly asks why didn't we have school shootings dunnamany years ago; well, duh, we didn't have social media then, either.
I'll stop. I fear there is no way to fix us without some significant catalyst that I see no sign of on the horizon.
Rats in a cage.
And it's not a bad theory.
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@bachophile said in Texas shooting.:
@89th not really sure how it would work
a mandatory police background check and a mandatory medical certification, where shrinks could be held liable . I dont know. seems to work in other countries.
and that nonsense about america being different. american exceptionalism. thats fine if the exceptionalism is good and positive. what if it stinks? what if it means America is worse than most other places in some respects.
its very saddening.
The mandatory NICS exists. Here's a link with the current 4473:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/atf-form-4473-firearms-transaction-record-revisions
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There's been some talk of Red Flag laws being an area of compromise.
All right, Dems. Make you a deal...This last shooter was transgendered. Let's go back to the future and label transgendered people as mentally ill and red flag their 4473.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
There's been some talk of Red Flag laws being an area of compromise.
All right, Dems. Make you a deal...This last shooter was transgendered. Let's go back to the future and label transgendered people as mentally ill and red flag their 4473.
I haven’t seen anything about the shooter’s self identification. Where are you seeing that?
Education is extremely important.
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@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
There's been some talk of Red Flag laws being an area of compromise.
All right, Dems. Make you a deal...This last shooter was transgendered. Let's go back to the future and label transgendered people as mentally ill and red flag their 4473.
I haven’t seen anything about the shooter’s self identification. Where are you seeing that?
Apparently, a rumour started on 4Chan. According to this article, it's bogus.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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It's odd how the mentally ill in other countries don't do this.
Particularly when we're told that US Healthcare is better than all that socialized rubbish.
Maybe demonizing trans folk based on some rumour started on 4chan isn't such great idea, unless actual evidence emerges.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/texas-school-shooting-victims-were-killed-in-one-classroom-11653484041
Texas School Shooter Had No Known Mental Health Issues or Arrests
The gunman who killed 19 students and two teachers Tuesday in an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, wasn’t known to law enforcement ahead of time and had no documented mental-health issues and no known arrests, state officials said Wednesday.
The first warnings of violence came in the form of Facebook messages shortly before Salvador Ramos, 18, shot his grandmother and proceeded to Robb Elementary, where the mass shooting took place. Ramos wrote on Facebook “I’m going to shoot my grandma” and then, after doing so, posted, “I shot my grandma,” Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said in a news conference. Less than 15 minutes before arriving at Robb Elementary School, he wrote, “I’m going to shoot an elementary school.”
A spokesman for Facebook’s parent company, Meta Platforms Inc., said on Twitter that the communications were private messages sent to another individual, not public posts.
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@Mik said in Texas shooting.:
My question is how did he get in? We have gone to two local schools this week. Both of them required we be buzzed in.
If you were a former pupil, it probably wouldn't be that difficult to beat most school security. When I go, it's not exactly Fort Knox.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:
It's odd how the mentally ill in other countries don't do this.
Mass shootings are up in Ukraine
I'm sure anyone can find statistics to support just about anything.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:
@Mik said in Texas shooting.:
My question is how did he get in? We have gone to two local schools this week. Both of them required we be buzzed in.
If you were a former pupil, it probably wouldn't be that difficult to beat most school security. When I go, it's not exactly Fort Knox.
Not buying that. Why would a shady looking 18 year old have any business in an elementary school? His backpack alone would have set off my alarms, not to mention he just shot his grandmother and wrecked a truck. He’s not going to be normal acting.
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That's OK, this conversation is older than that.
I think that data is kind of shaky, no matter how old it is.
I heard a guy was implying that this sort of murder only happens in the US. Here is a different point of view - with data! Maybe old shaky data, but better than shut up.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
I haven’t seen anything about the shooter’s self identification. Where are you seeing that?
Apparently, a rumour started on 4Chan. According to this article, it's bogus.
- No, there is no evidence that the gunman was transgender.
Hours after the attack, a post on the fringe online message board 4chan circulated claiming that the gunman was transgender. Numerous photographs falsely claiming to show the gunman wearing women’s clothing were attached.
The authorities have said the gunman was male.
The unfounded claims made their way to Telegram channels of far-right militia groups such as the Proud Boys, where people falsely claimed that the shooting was a result of hormone therapy undertaken by the gunman.
By Wednesday, the claims that the gunman was transgender had been amplified by high-profile people such as Representative Paul Gosar, an Arizona Republican who was censured last year by the House after he posted a video that depicted him killing a Democratic lawmaker. Mr. Gosar’s Twitter post on the matter has been deleted.
Photos of dark-haired transgender women circulated alongside images of the gunman’s face, accompanied with false accusations that they were the same person. “There is an overwhelming number of individuals who are posting images of this person, who was the shooter, and information about the nature of them being transgender,” Stacy Washington, the host of the SiriusXM show “Stacy on the Right,” said on Tuesday night. She added: “We don’t have definitive proof, but I’d say, this many pictures? My goodness. There’s something going on here.”
On Tuesday, a transgender artist said on Reddit that people online “just took my photos and used it to spread misinformation.” After the artist posted other photos as proof, an account on Twitter that discusses gun rights deleted a post that had included the artist’s photo and apologized - No, there is no evidence that the gunman was transgender.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
There's been some talk of Red Flag laws being an area of compromise.
All right, Dems. Make you a deal...This last shooter was transgendered. Let's go back to the future and label transgendered people as mentally ill and red flag their 4473.
I haven’t seen anything about the shooter’s self identification. Where are you seeing that?
Apparently, a rumour started on 4Chan. According to this article, it's bogus.
Ok, if it's bogus, it's bogus.
Now, I still consider transgendered teenagers to be mentally ill. Mentally ill people should not be allowed to purchase firearms.
How's that?
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
Offered without cpmment.
