Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?
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I for one have absolutely no idea what's going to happen.
Pretty much everybody was confidently saying there was no way he'd invade until just before he did, so look how that turned out. Admittedly, I had no idea what was going to happen back then, either, but at least I wasn't alone.
I also remember a number of people saying how Russia wasn't a threat to world peace, and anybody who said otherwise was an idiot, and we've completely overlooked China.
Apparently, we overlooked Russia even more.
Let's hope Putin is replaced with a lovely, benign liberal (not American liberal, old fashioned liberal). I know, it's not going to happen in a million years, still, we can dream.
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@Jolly said in Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?:
I think we're still overlooking China.
A monster that we helped create through greed.
They have a stake in keeping the West around for exactly that reason. Might be good.
Please love yourself.
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@jon-nyc said in Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?:
Baltics would have been next.
You think that's off the table now?
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Well my crystal ball is pretty weak but I imagine Putin regrets his last move and would be wary to do another one with higher stakes.
@jon-nyc said in Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?:
Well my crystal ball is pretty weak but I imagine Putin regrets his last move and would be wary to do another one with higher stakes.
And one where the rest of NATO (on paper) is required to help defend militarily.
That being said, anyone who has played the game of risk knows the value of Russia getting the big Ukraine territory. Would make it much easier to swallow up Belarus, Latvia, Moldova, and Lithuania, maybe even Estonia out of momentum.
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I keep hoping what Mik said is true...Maybe China's greed precludes them from pissing off the goose that lays those golden eggs.
@Jolly said in Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?:
I keep hoping what Mik said is true...Maybe China's greed precludes them from pissing off the goose that lays those golden eggs.
Could go in at least two ways, let Europe and the US get into the slog with Russia - and feel it is the perfect time to move on Taiwan or join with the West in applying pressure on Russia to respect Ukrainian sovereignty.
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One would hope todays global, real-time, internet/etc economy would prevent these types of conventional wars from 50-75 years ago. But it seems Putin doesn’t (yet) think so, and sadly I think China and Taiwan is an inevitable trigger point that’ll force the international community to make even tougher decisions than are being discussed today with Ukraine.
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@Jolly said in Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?:
I think we're still overlooking China.
A monster that we helped create through greed.
They have a stake in keeping the West around for exactly that reason. Might be good.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?:
@Jolly said in Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?:
I think we're still overlooking China.
A monster that we helped create through greed.
They have a stake in keeping the West around for exactly that reason. Might be good.
So did Russia.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?:
@Jolly said in Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?:
I think we're still overlooking China.
A monster that we helped create through greed.
They have a stake in keeping the West around for exactly that reason. Might be good.
So did Russia.
@Mik said in Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?:
@Jolly said in Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?:
I think we're still overlooking China.
A monster that we helped create through greed.
They have a stake in keeping the West around for exactly that reason. Might be good.
So did Russia.
Right, but China's really invested. So, maybe?
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The US is sending fighter jets to Poland to let Ukrainian pilots go to Poland and fly them back into Ukraine. Whether you agree with doing that or not, that is the US getting directly involved in a hot war with Russia. Also, since Poland is also a NATO member, this brings NATO into the war. This act alone makes NATO and the US both direct participants in a hot war between Russia and Ukraine, and now it's WWIII.
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One would hope todays global, real-time, internet/etc economy would prevent these types of conventional wars from 50-75 years ago. But it seems Putin doesn’t (yet) think so, and sadly I think China and Taiwan is an inevitable trigger point that’ll force the international community to make even tougher decisions than are being discussed today with Ukraine.
@89th said in Who here thinks this stops at Ukraine?:
economy would prevent these types of conventional wars from 50-75 years ago
War is still popular
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts
5 Current Major wars > 10,000 deaths
18 Current Wars > 100 < 1,000 deaths
20 Minor conflicts -
A draft bill submitted to the Russian State Duma calls for repealing the resolution of the Soviet Union State Council “On Recognising the Independence of the Republic of Lithuania”.
The bill was drafted by a member of the United Russia party, Evgeny Fedorov.
In the explanatory note, Fedorov said the Russian Federation was recognised as the legal successor of the Soviet Union. He also noted that in March 1991, a referendum was held in Russia, expressing support in preserving the Soviet Union as a single state.
But in September the same year, the Soviet Union State Council, chaired by Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev, adopted a resolution “On Recognising the Independence of the Republic of Lithuania”. Fedorov claimed the resolution was illegal.
The draft bill follows a May resolution by the Lithuanian parliament, Seimas, recognising Russia’s war against Ukraine as genocide and Russia as a terrorist state.
Lithuania declared independence in March 1990. Months later in January 1991, Soviet forces attempted to overthrow the government. The last Soviet troops left Lithuania in 1993.
Fedorov already questioned the legitimacy of Lithuania's independence in 2015. At the time, he and another Duma deputy, Anton Romanov, wrote a letter to the Russian prosecutor’s office, saying that Lithuania's independence had been recognised by an “unconstitutional body”.
The prosecutor’s office then launched an investigation, which was decried as “a legal, moral, and political absurdity” by the then Lithuanian Foreign Minister Linas Linkevičius.
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The difference is Russia always saw Ukraine and Georgia as part of cultural great Russia. The baltics were never really Russian. They were what they are. Baltic states more culturally European than Russian.
