At school in Vegas
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Yeah, I had three guys - none of which weighed under two hundred pounds - try to stuff me in a toilet. It didn't happen.
And the first opportunity I got, I picked up a 32" Louisville Slugger and we had a Come To Jesus moment in the middle of a locker room. You want to fight me fair, and I'll take my whippin' with as much grace as I can muster. Lord knows, I got enough of them and seven chipped teeth to show for my trouble.
You gang up on me and I'll do whatever it takes to break every bone in your fucking body and spit in your face as I walk over you.
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@jolly said in At school in Vegas:
My kids were also taught not to get in the middle of a fair fight, but you don't let other kids get ganged up on or beaten. Sometimes, that means getting an adult to intervene. Sometimes, it means stopping something from happening. Again, when that Rubicon is crossed, there is no such thing as a fair fight. It's Al Davis rules at that point.
Kindly help me understand a couple of things; what do you mean by the “Rubicon,” and what do you mean by “Al Davis rules”?
Specific to the incident as shown in the video referenced in the opening post, would you consider that “a fair fight” (it is, after all, one on one, with both parties being roughly the same age)? If not, what would you have your kids do in that particular situation?
Thank you, @Aqua-Letifer and @Larry and @Copper for your answers. I will address them after I get some clarification from @Jolly (and @Mik, if he cares to clarify).
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cross the Rubicon
Irrevocably commit to a course of action, make a fateful and final decision. For example, Once he submitted his resignation, he had crossed the Rubicon. This phrase alludes to Julius Caesar's crossing the Rubicon River (between Italy and Gaul) in 49 b.c., thereby starting a war against Pompey and the Roman Senate. Recounted in Plutarch's Lives: Julius Caesar (c. a.d. 110), the crossing gave rise to the figurative English usage by the early 1600s.Al Davis rules? Just win, baby!
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Now I am going to address @Aqua-Letifer’s answer (then get to @Copper and @Jolly and @Larry’s answers in turn).
@Aqua-Letifer: ”A lot of things about right and wrong, about rules and procedures, and about the times in which someone has to step up because there is no adult vs. getting hurt or killed because you tried to play the hero. After school these situations get very complicated.”
This, I appreciate, it shows that you recognize the complexity.
@Aqua-Letifer: ”But for a school situation, I'm going to be telling her something similar to what mik and Larry said. In school, you see that sort of shit, you don't wait for a fucking adult, you stop it.”
Two problems with this:
- Insufficiently prescriptive for school age children/teenagers. “Stop it”? How? To the point of staking your own life on it, or to some lesser degree?
- The underlying assumption that your kid has the capability to “stop it,” without qualification. This may not be true.
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@copper said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
Now you folks (@Jolly, @Aqua-Letifer, @Larry, etc.) go ahead and tell me what you, if you take the position of a parent, would tell your own kid to deal with something like this if your kid were to witness it in his/her class.
Fire at least one shot in the air to make sure the attacker understands the situation.
If the attacker continues, put a couple into her kneecaps, that should discourage her.
One problem with this is the assumption that your kid will have the bigger firepower (and the corresponding ability to effectively deploy the firepower). This may not be true. When this is not true, escalating the issue becomes dangerous to your kid.
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@jolly said in At school in Vegas:
My kids were also taught not to get in the middle of a fair fight, but you don't let other kids get ganged up on or beaten.
Ok, I appreciate the nuance there, you steer clear of other people’s “fair fights,” however that “fairness” is judged.
Sometimes, that means getting an adult to intervene.
OK, that one is consistent with my answer, no argument there.
Sometimes, it means stopping something from happening.
Does not seem sufficiently prescriptive for school age children/teenagers, but I suppose we can dig deeper into this is you care to.
Again, when that Rubicon is crossed, there is no such thing as a fair fight. It's Al Davis rules at that point.
Makes sense if your kid is the one being attacked since self-defense would then become a necessity. Otherwise that has the same problem with @Copper’s answer — the assumption that your kid has the bigger fists. If your kid started of being a by-standing witness to a physical altercation, whether to “cross the Rubicon” for your kid is up to your kid — whether to intervene in someone else’s fight. Cannot say I see a clear answer from you yet about whether you want your kid to intervene in the sort of situation as shown in the video.
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@Larry wrote: “What would I tell my kid? Exactly the same thing I told them when they were in school - don't start anything, but if someone else does, you finish it.”
“You finish it” is a rather vague, rather empty bravura. Insufficiently prescriptive for school age children/teenagers, insufficiently prescriptive for most adults, for that matter. Heck, “finishing it” may even be done by getting a school staff member to step in. Also has the same problem as @Copper’s answer, that assumption that the your kid has the bigger firepower, which may not be true.
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@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@Larry wrote: “What would I tell my kid? Exactly the same thing I told them when they were in school - don't start anything, but if someone else does, you finish it.”
“You finish it” is a rather vague, rather empty bravura. Insufficiently prescriptive for school age children/teenagers, insufficiently prescriptive for most adults, for that matter. Heck, “finishing it” may even be done by getting a school staff member to step in. Also has the same problem as @Copper’s answer, that assumption that the your kid has the bigger firepower, which may not be true.
You're so fucking stupid it hurts my feelings. There's not a man on this board who needs "you finish it" explained to them.
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@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@Larry wrote: “What would I tell my kid? Exactly the same thing I told them when they were in school - don't start anything, but if someone else does, you finish it.”
“You finish it” is a rather vague, rather empty bravura. Insufficiently prescriptive for school age children/teenagers, insufficiently prescriptive for most adults, for that matter. Heck, “finishing it” may even be done by getting a school staff member to step in. Also has the same problem as @Copper’s answer, that assumption that the your kid has the bigger firepower, which may not be true.
A kid is not a robot waiting for detailed instructions on what it needs to do. You teach a kid a good set of values and leave the implementation of those values in a particular context to the discretion of the kid. Sure, it may screw up sometimes, but that's life.
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@klaus said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@Larry wrote: “What would I tell my kid? Exactly the same thing I told them when they were in school - don't start anything, but if someone else does, you finish it.”
“You finish it” is a rather vague, rather empty bravura. Insufficiently prescriptive for school age children/teenagers, insufficiently prescriptive for most adults, for that matter. Heck, “finishing it” may even be done by getting a school staff member to step in. Also has the same problem as @Copper’s answer, that assumption that the your kid has the bigger firepower, which may not be true.
A kid is not a robot waiting for detailed instructions on what it needs to do. You teach a kid a good set of values and leave the implementation of those values in a particular context to the discretion of the kid. Sure, it may screw up sometimes, but that's life.
Amen.
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@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
Now you folks (@Jolly, @Aqua-Letifer, @Larry, etc.) go ahead and tell me what you
First, I would say... make sure you have the phone in landscape and not portrait mode for the video.
(kidding)
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@klaus said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@Larry wrote: “What would I tell my kid? Exactly the same thing I told them when they were in school - don't start anything, but if someone else does, you finish it.”
“You finish it” is a rather vague, rather empty bravura. Insufficiently prescriptive for school age children/teenagers, insufficiently prescriptive for most adults, for that matter. Heck, “finishing it” may even be done by getting a school staff member to step in. Also has the same problem as @Copper’s answer, that assumption that the your kid has the bigger firepower, which may not be true.
A kid is not a robot waiting for detailed instructions on what it needs to do. You teach a kid a good set of values and leave the implementation of those values in a particular context to the discretion of the kid. Sure, it may screw up sometimes, but that's life.
Not that what you say isn’t true, just that it still doesn’t get you closer to teaching your kid what to do in that situation.
“Finish (eating) your vegetables”, “finish your homework”, “finish your chores” have common sense understanding and you can indeed expect a school age person to execute those without detailed instructions. “Finish it” (where “it” in this case refers to a fight you witness) is a far cry from having a common sense understanding, that’s why you see people having trouble actually verbalizing what that’s supposed to mean.
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@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
Now I am going to address @Aqua-Letifer’s answer (then get to @Copper and @Jolly and @Larry’s answers in turn).
@Aqua-Letifer: ”A lot of things about right and wrong, about rules and procedures, and about the times in which someone has to step up because there is no adult vs. getting hurt or killed because you tried to play the hero. After school these situations get very complicated.”
This, I appreciate, it shows that you recognize the complexity.
@Aqua-Letifer: ”But for a school situation, I'm going to be telling her something similar to what mik and Larry said. In school, you see that sort of shit, you don't wait for a fucking adult, you stop it.”
Two problems with this:
- Insufficiently prescriptive for school age children/teenagers. “Stop it”? How? To the point of staking your own life on it, or to some lesser degree?
- The underlying assumption that your kid has the capability to “stop it,” without qualification. This may not be true.
One problem with this:
My response was based on my poor handling of situations like this when I was the child, and what I learned from that. Yours is based on conceptual masturbation.
Forgive me for not really caring what you think of my response, but I sincerely doubt your own ability to deal with a situation like this on any level.
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@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@klaus said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@Larry wrote: “What would I tell my kid? Exactly the same thing I told them when they were in school - don't start anything, but if someone else does, you finish it.”
“You finish it” is a rather vague, rather empty bravura. Insufficiently prescriptive for school age children/teenagers, insufficiently prescriptive for most adults, for that matter. Heck, “finishing it” may even be done by getting a school staff member to step in. Also has the same problem as @Copper’s answer, that assumption that the your kid has the bigger firepower, which may not be true.
A kid is not a robot waiting for detailed instructions on what it needs to do. You teach a kid a good set of values and leave the implementation of those values in a particular context to the discretion of the kid. Sure, it may screw up sometimes, but that's life.
Not that what you say isn’t true, just that it still doesn’t get you closer to teaching your kid what to do in that situation.
“Finish (eating) your vegetables”, “finish your homework”, “finish your chores” have common sense understanding and you can indeed expect a school age person to execute those without detailed instructions. “Finish it” (where “it” in this case refers to a fight you witness) is a far cry from having a common sense understanding, that’s why you see people having trouble actually verbalizing what that’s supposed to mean.
It's not that difficult. If a kid A is being treated quite unfairly or violently by another kid B, you help A, either by getting involved in the fight or, if applicable, get an adult to interfere. Kids with a healthy background actually have a quite decent instinct on what the right thing to do in such situations is. Micromanagement is a terrible parenting strategy. You show the general direction, not every step along the way.
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@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@klaus said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@Larry wrote: “What would I tell my kid? Exactly the same thing I told them when they were in school - don't start anything, but if someone else does, you finish it.”
“You finish it” is a rather vague, rather empty bravura. Insufficiently prescriptive for school age children/teenagers, insufficiently prescriptive for most adults, for that matter. Heck, “finishing it” may even be done by getting a school staff member to step in. Also has the same problem as @Copper’s answer, that assumption that the your kid has the bigger firepower, which may not be true.
A kid is not a robot waiting for detailed instructions on what it needs to do. You teach a kid a good set of values and leave the implementation of those values in a particular context to the discretion of the kid. Sure, it may screw up sometimes, but that's life.
Not that what you say isn’t true, just that it still doesn’t get you closer to teaching your kid what to do in that situation.
“Finish (eating) your vegetables”, “finish your homework”, “finish your chores” have common sense understanding and you can indeed expect a school age person to execute those without detailed instructions. “Finish it” (where “it” in this case refers to a fight you witness) is a far cry from having a common sense understanding, that’s why you see people having trouble actually verbalizing what that’s supposed to mean.
You are a stone cold moron.
