More food for thought
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@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:
Are the construction loans forgivable via death or bankruptcy?
Have you priced a Ram pickup with a Cummins?
$100,000 locally.
@jolly said in More food for thought:
@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:
Are the construction loans forgivable via death or bankruptcy?
Have you priced a Ram pickup with a Cummins?
$100,000 locally.
So what? How is $100k in forgivable loans somehow better than $75k in loans that you can't default on, and transfer to your family if you die or can't pay up?
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So, how is $75k in student loans - often for a degree that has no usefulness in the job market - better than some guy trying to get a business off of the ground?
Suppose the Hand of God swept through America tonight, killing every plumber and English major. Who would be missed more the next morning?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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So, how is $75k in student loans - often for a degree that has no usefulness in the job market - better than some guy trying to get a business off of the ground?
Suppose the Hand of God swept through America tonight, killing every plumber and English major. Who would be missed more the next morning?
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So, how is $75k in student loans - often for a degree that has no usefulness in the job market - better than some guy trying to get a business off of the ground?
Suppose the Hand of God swept through America tonight, killing every plumber and English major. Who would be missed more the next morning?
@jolly said in More food for thought:
Before I entertain the below, I'm going to address something: I'm not saying the guy doesn't have a point. At least in terms of his side of loan forgiveness. What I would say is that there's a crack in the logical foundation here: the loans are not even broadly the same and can't be compared as if the differences were only monetary.
Now, on to your queries.
So, how is $75k in student loans - often for a degree that has no usefulness in the job market - better than some guy trying to get a business off of the ground?
I'm not moved by the "business > education" fallacy. I've been hearing it from rural conservatives regarding my own degree since I received it. It usually comes from people who don't even know they're touting that argument to further stake their claim along their chosen professional totem pole.
In my experience, which isn't special, every degree can either have a usefulness in the job market, or not, depending on how pragmatic you choose to be about the experience.
Suppose the Hand of God swept through America tonight, killing every plumber and English major. Who would be missed more the next morning?
In the short-term? Plumbers.
In the long-term, I know you're a fan of history, so it's hilarious to me that you of all people (1) just proposed a Bolshevik purge and then (2) claimed that it's no big deal.
And before you start attacking English majors as a bunch of woke motherfuckers, I'd remind you that placing all educational emphasis on the STEM fields, treating English as a throwaway degree, fostering a disdain for the humanities, and keeping rural, conservative kids out of liberal arts degree programs because you think they're worthless is precisely how you would cultivate woke motherfuckery if you wanted to do so as quickly as possible. So, great job, I guess.
Please love yourself.
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Absolute horseshit. I've known some very talented guys in my life that made their living building, wiring or repairing different things in society. I think it much easier for the guy who can do rafter tables in his head and read wood grain like a bible, to write sonnets or novels, than it is for for the lit major to cut birdmouths on a 5/12 rafter or run a sewer line.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@jolly said in More food for thought:
Before I entertain the below, I'm going to address something: I'm not saying the guy doesn't have a point. At least in terms of his side of loan forgiveness. What I would say is that there's a crack in the logical foundation here: the loans are not even broadly the same and can't be compared as if the differences were only monetary.
Now, on to your queries.
So, how is $75k in student loans - often for a degree that has no usefulness in the job market - better than some guy trying to get a business off of the ground?
I'm not moved by the "business > education" fallacy. I've been hearing it from rural conservatives regarding my own degree since I received it. It usually comes from people who don't even know they're touting that argument to further stake their claim along their chosen professional totem pole.
In my experience, which isn't special, every degree can either have a usefulness in the job market, or not, depending on how pragmatic you choose to be about the experience.
Suppose the Hand of God swept through America tonight, killing every plumber and English major. Who would be missed more the next morning?
In the short-term? Plumbers.
In the long-term, I know you're a fan of history, so it's hilarious to me that you of all people (1) just proposed a Bolshevik purge and then (2) claimed that it's no big deal.
And before you start attacking English majors as a bunch of woke motherfuckers, I'd remind you that placing all educational emphasis on the STEM fields, treating English as a throwaway degree, fostering a disdain for the humanities, and keeping rural, conservative kids out of liberal arts degree programs because you think they're worthless is precisely how you would cultivate woke motherfuckery if you wanted to do so as quickly as possible. So, great job, I guess.
@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:
@jolly said in More food for thought:
Before I entertain the below, I'm going to address something: I'm not saying the guy doesn't have a point. At least in terms of his side of loan forgiveness. What I would say is that there's a crack in the logical foundation here: the loans are not even broadly the same and can't be compared as if the differences were only monetary.
Wait, are we talking Federal student loans, or private? At any rate, you can have your student loans discharged in bankruptcy, it's just not automatic. Federal student loans are also discharged in cases of death. Private student loanscan be a little more tricky and are basically a case by case basis.
Now, on to your queries.
So, how is $75k in student loans - often for a degree that has no usefulness in the job market - better than some guy trying to get a business off of the ground?
I'm not moved by the "business > education" fallacy. I've been hearing it from rural conservatives regarding my own degree since I received it. It usually comes from people who don't even know they're touting that argument to further stake their claim along their chosen professional totem pole.
In my experience, which isn't special, every degree can either have a usefulness in the job market, or not, depending on how pragmatic you choose to be about the experience.
It's not a matter of usefulness, it's a matter of value. That degree has a value to the student. Whether it's directly tied to a career and income or not. Let's not diminish education while trying to promote practical training and job programs. Both are valuable.
Suppose the Hand of God swept through America tonight, killing every plumber and English major. Who would be missed more the next morning?
In the short-term? Plumbers.
In the long-term, I know you're a fan of history, so it's hilarious to me that you of all people (1) just proposed a Bolshevik purge and then (2) claimed that it's no big deal.
And before you start attacking English majors as a bunch of woke motherfuckers, I'd remind you that placing all educational emphasis on the STEM fields, treating English as a throwaway degree, fostering a disdain for the humanities, and keeping rural, conservative kids out of liberal arts degree programs because you think they're worthless is precisely how you would cultivate woke motherfuckery if you wanted to do so as quickly as possible. So, great job, I guess.
Funny, I can't really name any plumbers from 1900-1950, but I can name quite a few English Majors.
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Absolute horseshit. I've known some very talented guys in my life that made their living building, wiring or repairing different things in society. I think it much easier for the guy who can do rafter tables in his head and read wood grain like a bible, to write sonnets or novels, than it is for for the lit major to cut birdmouths on a 5/12 rafter or run a sewer line.
@jolly said in More food for thought:
I think it much easier for the guy who can do rafter tables in his head and read wood grain like a bible, to write sonnets or novels, than it is for for the lit major to cut birdmouths on a 5/12 rafter or run a sewer line.
Spoken like a true Dunning-Kruger University graduate. Of course you would say that. Had you different life experiences, you wouldn't.
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Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.
@jolly said in More food for thought:
Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.
I never claimed an English lit major could just pick up some wood and do that.
What you're claiming is that a carpenter with no writing experience could write a sonnet or novel.
Triple dog dare you to show me some of that shit.
Jolly, I completed my master's with students who had years of writing experience and many still couldn't manage that.
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@jolly said in More food for thought:
Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.
I never claimed an English lit major could just pick up some wood and do that.
What you're claiming is that a carpenter with no writing experience could write a sonnet or novel.
Triple dog dare you to show me some of that shit.
Jolly, I completed my master's with students who had years of writing experience and many still couldn't manage that.
@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:
@jolly said in More food for thought:
Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.
I never claimed an English lit major could just pick up some wood and do that.
What you're claiming is that a carpenter with no writing experience could write a sonnet or novel.
Triple dog dare you to show me some of that shit.
Jolly, I completed my master's with students who had years of writing experience and many still couldn't manage that.
Want to start with Jesus Christ and work our way forward?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Well, Rowe himself was a communications major that almost went for theater… I bet he has little issue with English Lit majors…
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I do find the American right's constant belittling of higher education rather tiresome.
This has nothing to do with the arts, but I've worked with a number of technicians who think they should be running the engineering department. They claim that the only thing that's held them back is a lack of a degree. In reality it was their inability to get the degree in the first place that stopped them from progressing.
Sure, I'd rather they were doing the testing, the plumbing and the woodwork. But that's not engineering and research.
I was only joking
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@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:
@jolly said in More food for thought:
Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.
I never claimed an English lit major could just pick up some wood and do that.
What you're claiming is that a carpenter with no writing experience could write a sonnet or novel.
Triple dog dare you to show me some of that shit.
Jolly, I completed my master's with students who had years of writing experience and many still couldn't manage that.
Want to start with Jesus Christ and work our way forward?
@jolly said in More food for thought:
@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:
@jolly said in More food for thought:
Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.
I never claimed an English lit major could just pick up some wood and do that.
What you're claiming is that a carpenter with no writing experience could write a sonnet or novel.
Triple dog dare you to show me some of that shit.
Jolly, I completed my master's with students who had years of writing experience and many still couldn't manage that.
Want to start with Jesus Christ and work our way forward?
Let's start with where you started. Let's see some writing from these polymath tradesmen you know.
Please love yourself.
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I do find the American right's constant belittling of higher education rather tiresome.
This has nothing to do with the arts, but I've worked with a number of technicians who think they should be running the engineering department. They claim that the only thing that's held them back is a lack of a degree. In reality it was their inability to get the degree in the first place that stopped them from progressing.
Sure, I'd rather they were doing the testing, the plumbing and the woodwork. But that's not engineering and research.
@doctor-phibes said in More food for thought:
I do find the American right's constant belittling of higher education rather tiresome.
There's a certain kind of cat who goes in for this sort of bullshit. It's people who:
- have a big ego, inexperienced in humility; and
- have a lopsided skillset.
What do I do when I'm so embarrassingly inadequate in a field that even I know it, and I don't have the emotional intelligence to be okay with that?
Belittle the other side! That's exactly right!
Self-important tradies who believe that they can't compete academically will be the very first to tell you what they think of the education system.
Oh and by the way? Other side does this, too. There are absolutely scads of city-dwellers who have advanced degrees and can't top up their own wiper fluid, so what do they think of the trades? Yes of course, they're for unwashed knuckle-draggers who can't do anything important with their lives.
It's all horseshit. And yeah, unfortunately Americans are pretty good at slinging it around.
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@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:
@jolly said in More food for thought:
Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.
I never claimed an English lit major could just pick up some wood and do that.
What you're claiming is that a carpenter with no writing experience could write a sonnet or novel.
Triple dog dare you to show me some of that shit.
Jolly, I completed my master's with students who had years of writing experience and many still couldn't manage that.
Want to start with Jesus Christ and work our way forward?
@jolly said in More food for thought:
Want to start with Jesus Christ and work our way forward?
Convicted felon and noted rabble-rouser. Lived with his mother into his thirties. Spent most of his time hanging out with fishermen.
Your lot would have a freaking field-day with him.
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@jolly said in More food for thought:
@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:
@jolly said in More food for thought:
Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.
I never claimed an English lit major could just pick up some wood and do that.
What you're claiming is that a carpenter with no writing experience could write a sonnet or novel.
Triple dog dare you to show me some of that shit.
Jolly, I completed my master's with students who had years of writing experience and many still couldn't manage that.
Want to start with Jesus Christ and work our way forward?
Let's start with where you started. Let's see some writing from these polymath tradesmen you know.
@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:
@jolly said in More food for thought:
@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:
@jolly said in More food for thought:
Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.
I never claimed an English lit major could just pick up some wood and do that.
What you're claiming is that a carpenter with no writing experience could write a sonnet or novel.
Triple dog dare you to show me some of that shit.
Jolly, I completed my master's with students who had years of writing experience and many still couldn't manage that.
Want to start with Jesus Christ and work our way forward?
Let's start with where you started. Let's see some writing from these polymath tradesmen you know.
In some aspects, I'm one.
Now, you're telling me I can't write?
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@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:
@jolly said in More food for thought:
@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:
@jolly said in More food for thought:
Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.
I never claimed an English lit major could just pick up some wood and do that.
What you're claiming is that a carpenter with no writing experience could write a sonnet or novel.
Triple dog dare you to show me some of that shit.
Jolly, I completed my master's with students who had years of writing experience and many still couldn't manage that.
Want to start with Jesus Christ and work our way forward?
Let's start with where you started. Let's see some writing from these polymath tradesmen you know.
In some aspects, I'm one.
Now, you're telling me I can't write?
@jolly said in More food for thought:
In some aspects, I'm one.
Now, you're telling me I can't write?
Everyone can write. Just like everyone can work with wood.
But building Ikea furniture isn't Japanese joinery, and writing's exactly the same. There are many, many skill levels.
And by the way, how you get better at writing–and why so few people do–is to spend an absurd amount of time in a closed, quiet room, doing your absolute damndest to murder your ego. I mean that literally.
