More food for thought

[Mik]

[jon-nyc]

hear, hear

[Aqua Letifer]

Are the construction loans forgivable via death or bankruptcy?

[George K]

I love reading Rowe's common sense.

[LuFins Dad]

@george-k said in More food for thought:

I love reading Rowe's common sense.

Seriously… Can we just nominate him for President?

[Mik]

I have a friend who just bought a big piece of equipment for his fledgling management/construction company, so this hits home for me.

[Mik]

@george-k said in More food for thought:

I love reading Rowe's common sense.

Don'tcha, though? My daughter would benefit from student loan forgiveness (she had to take one out this year), but I just don't think it's right.

[Jolly]

@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:

Are the construction loans forgivable via death or bankruptcy?

Have you priced a Ram pickup with a Cummins?

$100,000 locally.

[Aqua Letifer]

@jolly said in More food for thought:

@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:

Are the construction loans forgivable via death or bankruptcy?

Have you priced a Ram pickup with a Cummins?

$100,000 locally.

So what? How is $100k in forgivable loans somehow better than $75k in loans that you can't default on, and transfer to your family if you die or can't pay up?

[Jolly]

So, how is $75k in student loans - often for a degree that has no usefulness in the job market - better than some guy trying to get a business off of the ground?

Suppose the Hand of God swept through America tonight, killing every plumber and English major. Who would be missed more the next morning?

[Copper]

@jolly said in More food for thought:

Who would be missed more the next morning?

If there is no story to be written and read, neither would be missed.

[Aqua Letifer]

@jolly said in More food for thought:

Before I entertain the below, I'm going to address something: I'm not saying the guy doesn't have a point. At least in terms of his side of loan forgiveness. What I would say is that there's a crack in the logical foundation here: the loans are not even broadly the same and can't be compared as if the differences were only monetary.

Now, on to your queries.

So, how is $75k in student loans - often for a degree that has no usefulness in the job market - better than some guy trying to get a business off of the ground?

I'm not moved by the "business > education" fallacy. I've been hearing it from rural conservatives regarding my own degree since I received it. It usually comes from people who don't even know they're touting that argument to further stake their claim along their chosen professional totem pole.

In my experience, which isn't special, every degree can either have a usefulness in the job market, or not, depending on how pragmatic you choose to be about the experience.

Suppose the Hand of God swept through America tonight, killing every plumber and English major. Who would be missed more the next morning?

In the short-term? Plumbers.

In the long-term, I know you're a fan of history, so it's hilarious to me that you of all people (1) just proposed a Bolshevik purge and then (2) claimed that it's no big deal.

And before you start attacking English majors as a bunch of woke motherfuckers, I'd remind you that placing all educational emphasis on the STEM fields, treating English as a throwaway degree, fostering a disdain for the humanities, and keeping rural, conservative kids out of liberal arts degree programs because you think they're worthless is precisely how you would cultivate woke motherfuckery if you wanted to do so as quickly as possible. So, great job, I guess.

[Jolly]

Absolute horseshit. I've known some very talented guys in my life that made their living building, wiring or repairing different things in society. I think it much easier for the guy who can do rafter tables in his head and read wood grain like a bible, to write sonnets or novels, than it is for for the lit major to cut birdmouths on a 5/12 rafter or run a sewer line.

[LuFins Dad]

@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:

@jolly said in More food for thought:

Before I entertain the below, I'm going to address something: I'm not saying the guy doesn't have a point. At least in terms of his side of loan forgiveness. What I would say is that there's a crack in the logical foundation here: the loans are not even broadly the same and can't be compared as if the differences were only monetary.

Wait, are we talking Federal student loans, or private? At any rate, you can have your student loans discharged in bankruptcy, it's just not automatic. Federal student loans are also discharged in cases of death. Private student loanscan be a little more tricky and are basically a case by case basis.

Now, on to your queries.

So, how is $75k in student loans - often for a degree that has no usefulness in the job market - better than some guy trying to get a business off of the ground?

I'm not moved by the "business > education" fallacy. I've been hearing it from rural conservatives regarding my own degree since I received it. It usually comes from people who don't even know they're touting that argument to further stake their claim along their chosen professional totem pole.

In my experience, which isn't special, every degree can either have a usefulness in the job market, or not, depending on how pragmatic you choose to be about the experience.

It's not a matter of usefulness, it's a matter of value. That degree has a value to the student. Whether it's directly tied to a career and income or not. Let's not diminish education while trying to promote practical training and job programs. Both are valuable.

Suppose the Hand of God swept through America tonight, killing every plumber and English major. Who would be missed more the next morning?

In the short-term? Plumbers.

In the long-term, I know you're a fan of history, so it's hilarious to me that you of all people (1) just proposed a Bolshevik purge and then (2) claimed that it's no big deal.

And before you start attacking English majors as a bunch of woke motherfuckers, I'd remind you that placing all educational emphasis on the STEM fields, treating English as a throwaway degree, fostering a disdain for the humanities, and keeping rural, conservative kids out of liberal arts degree programs because you think they're worthless is precisely how you would cultivate woke motherfuckery if you wanted to do so as quickly as possible. So, great job, I guess.

Funny, I can't really name any plumbers from 1900-1950, but I can name quite a few English Majors.

[Aqua Letifer]

@jolly said in More food for thought:

I think it much easier for the guy who can do rafter tables in his head and read wood grain like a bible, to write sonnets or novels, than it is for for the lit major to cut birdmouths on a 5/12 rafter or run a sewer line.

Spoken like a true Dunning-Kruger University graduate. Of course you would say that. Had you different life experiences, you wouldn't.

[Jolly]

Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.

[Jolly]

BTW, the guy who first explained the Dunning-Kruger effect to me was a floor installer, who eventually became known for his custom wood floors in the Dallas and North Texas area.

[Aqua Letifer]

@jolly said in More food for thought:

Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.

I never claimed an English lit major could just pick up some wood and do that.

What you're claiming is that a carpenter with no writing experience could write a sonnet or novel.

Triple dog dare you to show me some of that shit.

Jolly, I completed my master's with students who had years of writing experience and many still couldn't manage that.

[Jolly]

@aqua-letifer said in More food for thought:

@jolly said in More food for thought:

Actually, I know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is. Now, find me the average English lit major who knows how to rack a house square.

I never claimed an English lit major could just pick up some wood and do that.

What you're claiming is that a carpenter with no writing experience could write a sonnet or novel.

Triple dog dare you to show me some of that shit.

Jolly, I completed my master's with students who had years of writing experience and many still couldn't manage that.

Want to start with Jesus Christ and work our way forward?

[LuFins Dad]

Well, Rowe himself was a communications major that almost went for theater… I bet he has little issue with English Lit majors…