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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Breakthrough infection stats

Breakthrough infection stats

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  • X xenon

    At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)

    With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).

    There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)

    LuFins DadL Offline
    LuFins DadL Offline
    LuFins Dad
    wrote on last edited by
    #21

    @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

    At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)

    With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).

    There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)

    In what ways are they being selfish? In causing the virus to spread more? The vaccinated are doing so, too. Unfortunately, we have no numbers to guess by what amount, sure would be nice to quantify…

    In endangering those that cannot take the vaccine or the vaccine is ineffective? Well, if the vaccinated are spreading as well and at significant levels, then the risk is still there.

    The Brad

    Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
    • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

      @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

      At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)

      With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).

      There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)

      In what ways are they being selfish? In causing the virus to spread more? The vaccinated are doing so, too. Unfortunately, we have no numbers to guess by what amount, sure would be nice to quantify…

      In endangering those that cannot take the vaccine or the vaccine is ineffective? Well, if the vaccinated are spreading as well and at significant levels, then the risk is still there.

      Aqua LetiferA Offline
      Aqua LetiferA Offline
      Aqua Letifer
      wrote on last edited by
      #22

      @lufins-dad said in Breakthrough infection stats:

      @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

      At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)

      With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).

      There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)

      In what ways are they being selfish? In causing the virus to spread more? The vaccinated are doing so, too.

      Not nearly at the level of the vaccinated. They're also using significantly more resources in our medical system when they do get sick.

      Please love yourself.

      LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
      • JollyJ Offline
        JollyJ Offline
        Jolly
        wrote on last edited by
        #23

        Medical resources are an issue that isn't going away, but COVID has been the scapegoat for some issues that were already present.

        Medicine is quickly becoming overwhelmingly corporate with all the problems that MBA's, clipboard carriers and the government can bring to bear.

        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
        • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

          @lufins-dad said in Breakthrough infection stats:

          @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

          At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)

          With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).

          There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)

          In what ways are they being selfish? In causing the virus to spread more? The vaccinated are doing so, too.

          Not nearly at the level of the vaccinated. They're also using significantly more resources in our medical system when they do get sick.

          LuFins DadL Offline
          LuFins DadL Offline
          LuFins Dad
          wrote on last edited by
          #24

          @aqua-letifer said in Breakthrough infection stats:

          Not nearly at the level of the vaccinated.

          There is no data to justify that supposition. As shown earlier in this thread, the stats for the breakthrough cases are only those cases that visit a hospital. They aren’t counting the others that have mild symptoms. There’s very good reason to believe the reported number of breakthrough cases are 1/10th the actual number or even less. After all, if 10% of unvaccinated cases result in hospitalization then the number should be far less for a vaccine that reduces the severity of the disease, no?

          The Brad

          1 Reply Last reply
          • JollyJ Offline
            JollyJ Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on last edited by
            #25

            As part of protocol, any patient admitted to our little hospital has a rapid COVID test done. We admit 2-4/day. At least once per week, sometimes twice, they get an asymptomatic COVID positive admit, being admitted for some other condition.

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

            1 Reply Last reply
            • JollyJ Jolly

              Medical resources are an issue that isn't going away, but COVID has been the scapegoat for some issues that were already present.

              Medicine is quickly becoming overwhelmingly corporate with all the problems that MBA's, clipboard carriers and the government can bring to bear.

              George KG Offline
              George KG Offline
              George K
              wrote on last edited by
              #26

              @jolly said in Breakthrough infection stats:

              Medicine is quickly becoming overwhelmingly corporate

              https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club/category/2/general-discussion

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • JollyJ Offline
                JollyJ Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on last edited by
                #27

                25% vs. 38%?

                https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext#seccestitle160

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                1 Reply Last reply
                • X xenon

                  @copper said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                  ?

                  define legit

                  Did you just bristle at me using a short form of “legitimate” or do you really want examples of conditions where people can’t get a vaccine for medical reasons?

                  Right or wrong a lot of people are legitimately terrified of the vaccine

                  I know, I know, everyone here is superior to that

                  This has nothing to do with “superior”. That’s some sort of cultural argument. I, for completely selfish reasons, want the number of vaccinations to get as high as possible so we can all better move on with our lives. I don’t really personally know or care about who these people are.

                  So, sorry no, we don't all agree

                  That’s an interesting argument. So you think these people may have an unjustified fear, that fear has negative implications for society, but their heart is in the right place so we should have kindness and understanding.

                  I didn’t realize you were so tolerant and empathetic.

                  And I have had 6 vaccinations in the last year, anyone who has had fewer is selfish

                  CopperC Offline
                  CopperC Offline
                  Copper
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                  @copper said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                  ?

                  define legit

                  Did you just bristle at me using a short form of “legitimate” or do you really want examples of conditions where people can’t get a vaccine for medical reasons?

                  Right or wrong a lot of people are legitimately terrified of the vaccine

                  I know, I know, everyone here is superior to that

                  This has nothing to do with “superior”. That’s some sort of cultural argument. I, for completely selfish reasons, want the number of vaccinations to get as high as possible so we can all better move on with our lives. I don’t really personally know or care about who these people are.

                  So, sorry no, we don't all agree

                  That’s an interesting argument. So you think these people may have an unjustified fear, that fear has negative implications for society, but their heart is in the right place so we should have kindness and understanding.

                  I didn’t realize you were so tolerant and empathetic.

                  And I have had 6 vaccinations in the last year, anyone who has had fewer is selfish

                  I was simply answering your question

                  No I don't agree with all this stuff you are making up

                  Let's keep it simple

                  can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish

                  No, we can't all agree with that

                  X LuFins DadL 2 Replies Last reply
                  • CopperC Copper

                    @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                    @copper said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                    ?

                    define legit

                    Did you just bristle at me using a short form of “legitimate” or do you really want examples of conditions where people can’t get a vaccine for medical reasons?

                    Right or wrong a lot of people are legitimately terrified of the vaccine

                    I know, I know, everyone here is superior to that

                    This has nothing to do with “superior”. That’s some sort of cultural argument. I, for completely selfish reasons, want the number of vaccinations to get as high as possible so we can all better move on with our lives. I don’t really personally know or care about who these people are.

                    So, sorry no, we don't all agree

                    That’s an interesting argument. So you think these people may have an unjustified fear, that fear has negative implications for society, but their heart is in the right place so we should have kindness and understanding.

                    I didn’t realize you were so tolerant and empathetic.

                    And I have had 6 vaccinations in the last year, anyone who has had fewer is selfish

                    I was simply answering your question

                    No I don't agree with all this stuff you are making up

                    Let's keep it simple

                    can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish

                    No, we can't all agree with that

                    X Offline
                    X Offline
                    xenon
                    wrote on last edited by xenon
                    #29

                    @copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]

                    No, we can't all agree with that

                    So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people getting vaccinated.

                    At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.

                    Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.

                    I would think that’s a benefit.

                    And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).

                    Aqua LetiferA CopperC 2 Replies Last reply
                    • X xenon

                      @copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]

                      No, we can't all agree with that

                      So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people getting vaccinated.

                      At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.

                      Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.

                      I would think that’s a benefit.

                      And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).

                      Aqua LetiferA Offline
                      Aqua LetiferA Offline
                      Aqua Letifer
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                      @copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]

                      No, we can't all agree with that

                      So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people not getting vaccinated.

                      At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.

                      Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.

                      I would think that’s a benefit.

                      And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).

                      Tribes trump smarts.

                      Please love yourself.

                      JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                      • X xenon

                        @copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]

                        No, we can't all agree with that

                        So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people getting vaccinated.

                        At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.

                        Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.

                        I would think that’s a benefit.

                        And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).

                        CopperC Offline
                        CopperC Offline
                        Copper
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #31

                        @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                        @copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]

                        No, we can't all agree with that

                        So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people not getting vaccinated.

                        At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.

                        Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.

                        I would think that’s a benefit.

                        And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).

                        Wrong again

                        Can I make it even more simple?

                        Selfishness is not the only reason

                        X 1 Reply Last reply
                        • CopperC Copper

                          @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                          @copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]

                          No, we can't all agree with that

                          So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people not getting vaccinated.

                          At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.

                          Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.

                          I would think that’s a benefit.

                          And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).

                          Wrong again

                          Can I make it even more simple?

                          Selfishness is not the only reason

                          X Offline
                          X Offline
                          xenon
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #32

                          @copper said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                          @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                          @copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]

                          No, we can't all agree with that

                          So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people not getting vaccinated.

                          At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.

                          Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.

                          I would think that’s a benefit.

                          And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).

                          Wrong again

                          Can I make it even more simple?

                          Selfishness is not the only reason

                          So make it clear then. At least I spell out what I think. Do you think there are social benefits to vaccination or not? The selfish question is downstream of that.

                          CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
                          • CopperC Copper

                            @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                            @copper said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                            ?

                            define legit

                            Did you just bristle at me using a short form of “legitimate” or do you really want examples of conditions where people can’t get a vaccine for medical reasons?

                            Right or wrong a lot of people are legitimately terrified of the vaccine

                            I know, I know, everyone here is superior to that

                            This has nothing to do with “superior”. That’s some sort of cultural argument. I, for completely selfish reasons, want the number of vaccinations to get as high as possible so we can all better move on with our lives. I don’t really personally know or care about who these people are.

                            So, sorry no, we don't all agree

                            That’s an interesting argument. So you think these people may have an unjustified fear, that fear has negative implications for society, but their heart is in the right place so we should have kindness and understanding.

                            I didn’t realize you were so tolerant and empathetic.

                            And I have had 6 vaccinations in the last year, anyone who has had fewer is selfish

                            I was simply answering your question

                            No I don't agree with all this stuff you are making up

                            Let's keep it simple

                            can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish

                            No, we can't all agree with that

                            LuFins DadL Offline
                            LuFins DadL Offline
                            LuFins Dad
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #33

                            @copper said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                            @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                            @copper said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                            ?

                            define legit

                            Did you just bristle at me using a short form of “legitimate” or do you really want examples of conditions where people can’t get a vaccine for medical reasons?

                            Right or wrong a lot of people are legitimately terrified of the vaccine

                            I know, I know, everyone here is superior to that

                            This has nothing to do with “superior”. That’s some sort of cultural argument. I, for completely selfish reasons, want the number of vaccinations to get as high as possible so we can all better move on with our lives. I don’t really personally know or care about who these people are.

                            So, sorry no, we don't all agree

                            That’s an interesting argument. So you think these people may have an unjustified fear, that fear has negative implications for society, but their heart is in the right place so we should have kindness and understanding.

                            I didn’t realize you were so tolerant and empathetic.

                            And I have had 6 vaccinations in the last year, anyone who has had fewer is selfish

                            I was simply answering your question

                            No I don't agree with all this stuff you are making up

                            Let's keep it simple

                            can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish

                            No, we can't all agree with that

                            Selfish? These bve soups are taking on the risk of catching COVID knowing there is a very small risk that they could get seriously ill just so these vaccines can get to those at greater risk. There are 50 million unused J&J vaccines that can now be sent to at risk people in foreign countries thanks to these heroes…

                            Seriously though? Let’s not pretend that we got vaccinated for unselfish reasons. We got vaccinated because A) we didn’t want to catch the virus and B) we wanted to get back to normal life. Work, travel, entertainment, and maybe even not having to wear those damn masks. Nobody said “I really don’t want to get this vaccine, but for the sake of the immune compromised I will step forward and be their shield! Huzzah!

                            The Brad

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                              @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                              @copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]

                              No, we can't all agree with that

                              So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people not getting vaccinated.

                              At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.

                              Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.

                              I would think that’s a benefit.

                              And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).

                              Tribes trump smarts.

                              JollyJ Offline
                              JollyJ Offline
                              Jolly
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #34

                              @aqua-letifer said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                              @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                              @copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]

                              No, we can't all agree with that

                              So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people not getting vaccinated.

                              At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.

                              Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.

                              I would think that’s a benefit.

                              And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).

                              Tribes trump smarts.

                              You ain't that dumb.

                              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • JollyJ Offline
                                JollyJ Offline
                                Jolly
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #35

                                @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                                Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.

                                That was going to happen, vaccine or no.

                                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                                • JollyJ Jolly

                                  @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                                  Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.

                                  That was going to happen, vaccine or no.

                                  LuFins DadL Offline
                                  LuFins DadL Offline
                                  LuFins Dad
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #36

                                  @jolly said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                                  @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                                  Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.

                                  That was going to happen, vaccine or no.

                                  An argument could be made that it would happen sooner if those at little risk went unvaccinated, no? Of course, that would mean somewhere near 500,000,000 hospitalizations and 50,000,000 dead over a pretty short period of time, so that would suck.

                                  I think the biggest issue for the unvaccinated is a comprehension of the macro vs. the micro. They look at it on a personal level. They feel it's a small chance they will get it and even if they do, there's a less than 1% chance that it will be lethal (they are tending to ignore the suck that is Long COVID...) So why purposefully expose themselves to the risk of the vaccine? What they aren't seeing is that while that may be the individual odds for them on the micro-level, on the macro those percentages translate into over 4,000,000 dead and the hospitals being flooded with 40,000,000 cases....

                                  The Brad

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • X xenon

                                    @copper said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                                    @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                                    @copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]

                                    No, we can't all agree with that

                                    So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people not getting vaccinated.

                                    At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.

                                    Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.

                                    I would think that’s a benefit.

                                    And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).

                                    Wrong again

                                    Can I make it even more simple?

                                    Selfishness is not the only reason

                                    So make it clear then. At least I spell out what I think. Do you think there are social benefits to vaccination or not? The selfish question is downstream of that.

                                    CopperC Offline
                                    CopperC Offline
                                    Copper
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #37

                                    @xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:

                                    So make it clear then. At least I spell out what I think. Do you think there are social benefits to vaccination or not? The selfish question is downstream of that.

                                    I don't know what you mean by social benefits.

                                    Even if I did know, I doubt I would be willing to say that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish.

                                    For example the WHO specifically excludes some with allergies from taking the vaccine.

                                    Are these people selfish because they didn't risk their lives in order to protect yours? I guess maybe you could say that.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • HoraceH Offline
                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #38

                                      Going out and interacting with other people is selfish, full stop.

                                      Education is extremely important.

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