Breakthrough infection stats
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wrote on 29 Oct 2021, 23:18 last edited by
At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)
With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).
There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)
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At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)
With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).
There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)
wrote on 29 Oct 2021, 23:26 last edited by@xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:
At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)
With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).
There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)
There's so much there...
But, in essence, you're right. If you're vaccinated, you're much less likely to die, and get seriously ill.
But (and if I read this correctly), if you're vaccinated, and you break through, your likelihood of transmitting the virus is pretty high, even if you don't get sick.
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At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)
With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).
There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)
wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 00:53 last edited by@xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:
At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)
Seems obvious to me.
Does anyone here disagree?
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wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 02:21 last edited by
?
define legit
Right or wrong a lot of people are legitimately terrified of the vaccine
I know, I know, everyone here is superior to that
So, sorry no, we don't all agree
And I have had 6 vaccinations in the last year, anyone who has had fewer is selfish
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?
define legit
Right or wrong a lot of people are legitimately terrified of the vaccine
I know, I know, everyone here is superior to that
So, sorry no, we don't all agree
And I have had 6 vaccinations in the last year, anyone who has had fewer is selfish
wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 03:21 last edited by@copper said in Breakthrough infection stats:
?
define legit
Did you just bristle at me using a short form of “legitimate” or do you really want examples of conditions where people can’t get a vaccine for medical reasons?
Right or wrong a lot of people are legitimately terrified of the vaccine
I know, I know, everyone here is superior to that
This has nothing to do with “superior”. That’s some sort of cultural argument. I, for completely selfish reasons, want the number of vaccinations to get as high as possible so we can all better move on with our lives. I don’t really personally know or care about who these people are.
So, sorry no, we don't all agree
That’s an interesting argument. So you think these people may have an unjustified fear, that fear has negative implications for society, but their heart is in the right place so we should have kindness and understanding.
I didn’t realize you were so tolerant and empathetic.
And I have had 6 vaccinations in the last year, anyone who has had fewer is selfish
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wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 03:29 last edited by
How are the unvaccinated being selfish, if they are the most likely to become seriously ill or die? Especially in light of George's Lancet article.
Remember, I told you that down here over the last month, about 20% of the COVID patients admitted to hospital were fully vaccinated.
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How are the unvaccinated being selfish, if they are the most likely to become seriously ill or die? Especially in light of George's Lancet article.
Remember, I told you that down here over the last month, about 20% of the COVID patients admitted to hospital were fully vaccinated.
wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 03:52 last edited by@jolly said in Breakthrough infection stats:
How are the unvaccinated being selfish, if they are the most likely to become seriously ill or die? Especially in light of George's Lancet article.
Remember, I told you that down here over the last month, about 20% of the COVID patients admitted to hospital were fully vaccinated.
Just so I understand, you’re saying there’s no social benefits of more people being vaccinated?
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wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 07:24 last edited by
Don't extrapolate young man. I didn't say there were no social benefits. I do question the statement that the unvaxxed are selfish.
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At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)
With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).
There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)
wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 12:47 last edited by@xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:
At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)
With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).
There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)
In what ways are they being selfish? In causing the virus to spread more? The vaccinated are doing so, too. Unfortunately, we have no numbers to guess by what amount, sure would be nice to quantify…
In endangering those that cannot take the vaccine or the vaccine is ineffective? Well, if the vaccinated are spreading as well and at significant levels, then the risk is still there.
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@xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:
At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)
With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).
There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)
In what ways are they being selfish? In causing the virus to spread more? The vaccinated are doing so, too. Unfortunately, we have no numbers to guess by what amount, sure would be nice to quantify…
In endangering those that cannot take the vaccine or the vaccine is ineffective? Well, if the vaccinated are spreading as well and at significant levels, then the risk is still there.
wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 12:51 last edited by@lufins-dad said in Breakthrough infection stats:
@xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:
At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)
With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).
There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)
In what ways are they being selfish? In causing the virus to spread more? The vaccinated are doing so, too.
Not nearly at the level of the vaccinated. They're also using significantly more resources in our medical system when they do get sick.
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wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 13:00 last edited by
Medical resources are an issue that isn't going away, but COVID has been the scapegoat for some issues that were already present.
Medicine is quickly becoming overwhelmingly corporate with all the problems that MBA's, clipboard carriers and the government can bring to bear.
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@lufins-dad said in Breakthrough infection stats:
@xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:
At the very least, can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish and kinda asshole-ish? (Unless you have a legit medical reason not to)
With the amount of safety data we have on this - it seems like it's safer to get this vaccine than it is driving on a highway (maybe not, but it feels pretty damn safe).
There are real social costs to people not getting the vaccine (over-filled hospitals, prolonging the pandemic)
In what ways are they being selfish? In causing the virus to spread more? The vaccinated are doing so, too.
Not nearly at the level of the vaccinated. They're also using significantly more resources in our medical system when they do get sick.
wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 13:17 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in Breakthrough infection stats:
Not nearly at the level of the vaccinated.
There is no data to justify that supposition. As shown earlier in this thread, the stats for the breakthrough cases are only those cases that visit a hospital. They aren’t counting the others that have mild symptoms. There’s very good reason to believe the reported number of breakthrough cases are 1/10th the actual number or even less. After all, if 10% of unvaccinated cases result in hospitalization then the number should be far less for a vaccine that reduces the severity of the disease, no?
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wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 13:25 last edited by
As part of protocol, any patient admitted to our little hospital has a rapid COVID test done. We admit 2-4/day. At least once per week, sometimes twice, they get an asymptomatic COVID positive admit, being admitted for some other condition.
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Medical resources are an issue that isn't going away, but COVID has been the scapegoat for some issues that were already present.
Medicine is quickly becoming overwhelmingly corporate with all the problems that MBA's, clipboard carriers and the government can bring to bear.
wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 13:27 last edited by@jolly said in Breakthrough infection stats:
Medicine is quickly becoming overwhelmingly corporate
https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club/category/2/general-discussion
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wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 13:31 last edited by
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@copper said in Breakthrough infection stats:
?
define legit
Did you just bristle at me using a short form of “legitimate” or do you really want examples of conditions where people can’t get a vaccine for medical reasons?
Right or wrong a lot of people are legitimately terrified of the vaccine
I know, I know, everyone here is superior to that
This has nothing to do with “superior”. That’s some sort of cultural argument. I, for completely selfish reasons, want the number of vaccinations to get as high as possible so we can all better move on with our lives. I don’t really personally know or care about who these people are.
So, sorry no, we don't all agree
That’s an interesting argument. So you think these people may have an unjustified fear, that fear has negative implications for society, but their heart is in the right place so we should have kindness and understanding.
I didn’t realize you were so tolerant and empathetic.
And I have had 6 vaccinations in the last year, anyone who has had fewer is selfish
wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 14:57 last edited by@xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:
@copper said in Breakthrough infection stats:
?
define legit
Did you just bristle at me using a short form of “legitimate” or do you really want examples of conditions where people can’t get a vaccine for medical reasons?
Right or wrong a lot of people are legitimately terrified of the vaccine
I know, I know, everyone here is superior to that
This has nothing to do with “superior”. That’s some sort of cultural argument. I, for completely selfish reasons, want the number of vaccinations to get as high as possible so we can all better move on with our lives. I don’t really personally know or care about who these people are.
So, sorry no, we don't all agree
That’s an interesting argument. So you think these people may have an unjustified fear, that fear has negative implications for society, but their heart is in the right place so we should have kindness and understanding.
I didn’t realize you were so tolerant and empathetic.
And I have had 6 vaccinations in the last year, anyone who has had fewer is selfish
I was simply answering your question
No I don't agree with all this stuff you are making up
Let's keep it simple
can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish
No, we can't all agree with that
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@xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:
@copper said in Breakthrough infection stats:
?
define legit
Did you just bristle at me using a short form of “legitimate” or do you really want examples of conditions where people can’t get a vaccine for medical reasons?
Right or wrong a lot of people are legitimately terrified of the vaccine
I know, I know, everyone here is superior to that
This has nothing to do with “superior”. That’s some sort of cultural argument. I, for completely selfish reasons, want the number of vaccinations to get as high as possible so we can all better move on with our lives. I don’t really personally know or care about who these people are.
So, sorry no, we don't all agree
That’s an interesting argument. So you think these people may have an unjustified fear, that fear has negative implications for society, but their heart is in the right place so we should have kindness and understanding.
I didn’t realize you were so tolerant and empathetic.
And I have had 6 vaccinations in the last year, anyone who has had fewer is selfish
I was simply answering your question
No I don't agree with all this stuff you are making up
Let's keep it simple
can we agree that people who don't get the vaccines are being selfish
No, we can't all agree with that
wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 15:08 last edited by xenon@copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]
No, we can't all agree with that
So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people getting vaccinated.
At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.
Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.
I would think that’s a benefit.
And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).
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@copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]
No, we can't all agree with that
So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people getting vaccinated.
At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.
Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.
I would think that’s a benefit.
And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).
wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 15:22 last edited by@xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:
@copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]
No, we can't all agree with that
So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people not getting vaccinated.
At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.
Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.
I would think that’s a benefit.
And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).
Tribes trump smarts.
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@copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]
No, we can't all agree with that
So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people getting vaccinated.
At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.
Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.
I would think that’s a benefit.
And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).
wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 15:26 last edited by@xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:
@copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]
No, we can't all agree with that
So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people not getting vaccinated.
At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.
Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.
I would think that’s a benefit.
And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).
Wrong again
Can I make it even more simple?
Selfishness is not the only reason
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@xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:
@copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]
No, we can't all agree with that
So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people not getting vaccinated.
At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.
Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.
I would think that’s a benefit.
And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).
Wrong again
Can I make it even more simple?
Selfishness is not the only reason
wrote on 30 Oct 2021, 15:28 last edited by@copper said in Breakthrough infection stats:
@xenon said in Breakthrough infection stats:
@copper said in [Breakthrough infection stats]
No, we can't all agree with that
So this is an interesting thread. A lot of smart people think there are no social benefit to people not getting vaccinated.
At the very least I would have thought the strain on hospital resources and medical professions would count.
Beyond that, with a vaccinated population this thing truly moves into “flu” territory… so people should become less fearful of it the more deaths plummet.
I would think that’s a benefit.
And lastly, it’s the most practical thing we can do to protect ourselves. After that, it’s truly just back up to chance (again, like the flu).
Wrong again
Can I make it even more simple?
Selfishness is not the only reason
So make it clear then. At least I spell out what I think. Do you think there are social benefits to vaccination or not? The selfish question is downstream of that.