"Do Masks Work?"

[xenon]

There's two issues that get conflated here - 1) Do masks work 2) Can the government force someone to do something that would prevent harm to others

Let's say everyone started emitting a lethal 3-foot radius death beam out of their head, and wearing a hat would contain it. Should the government enforce a hat mandate? (Obviously, yes?)

The argument for personal responsibility is often that the government should never mandate any clothing - I don't think we actually believe that. Everything is a question of degrees, and the problem is that not enough people believe that masks work.

[George K]

I’ve said nothing about responsibility or freedom. Or for that matter politics in this thread. All I’m doing is pointing out that the recommendations are not really founded in science. When someone shows that there is science behind it I will be more than happy to listen and retract.

Wanna wear a mask? Do so. I do.

Wanna not wear a mask? Well then as the old saying goes “No shoes, no shirt, no service.”

I’m fine with that as well.

[Copper]

That’s about right

I wear it where required

Only to gain admittance

Certainly not because of any science with which I am familiar

Yes, yes I am familiar with the politics

[Larry]

Masks don't work. If a pair of undershorts can't block a fart, well..... You get the picture.....

[LuFins Dad]

I always suspected the mask stuff came down from the top for two reasons:

1. To get the press and general public to stop asking about masks

2. As a psychological pick me up for the general public, give them something to help them feel like they had SOME kind of control over this.

I think it worked in those regards. It also helped people take it a little more seriously. More people stayed farther apart.

People point to the declines in cases and say “See! It worked!”

I think those declines happened naturally because as things got worse people naturally started being more cautious and going out into public less. There was an interesting analysis supporting that last year when they looked at the numbers in North and South Dakota..

[Doctor Phibes]

@lufins-dad said in "Do Masks Work?":

I always suspected the mask stuff came down from the top for two reasons:

1. To get the press and general public to stop asking about masks

2. As a psychological pick me up for the general public, give them something to help them feel like they had SOME kind of control over this.

I think it also acts as a reminder than we're in the middle of a pandemic, so when you're out shopping you're less likely to forget and stand right next to somebody.

I agree with George about the lack of scientific evidence, but it sure can't do any harm to wear one.

[Copper]

Where is that thread that documents the various types of harm caused by masks?

[George K]

[LuFins Dad]

Way too many variables to be of much use, imo

[Jolly]

@lufins-dad said in "Do Masks Work?":

Way too many variables to be of much use, imo

Yeah, but it dovetails with the findings of the Australia/Vietnam study.

1. Cloth masks suck.
2. Surgical masks do work better and can slow transmission down a bit.

[LuFins Dad]

@jolly said in "Do Masks Work?":

@lufins-dad said in "Do Masks Work?":

Way too many variables to be of much use, imo

Yeah, but it dovetails with the findings of the Australia/Vietnam study.

1. Cloth masks suck.
2. Surgical masks do work better and can slow transmission down a bit.

@jolly said in "Do Masks Work?":

@lufins-dad said in "Do Masks Work?":

Way too many variables to be of much use, imo

Yeah, but it dovetails with the findings of the Australia/Vietnam study.

1. Cloth masks suck.
2. Surgical masks do work better and can slow transmission down a bit.

But if I remember correctly, the Aussie study also didn’t account for behavioral changes that could have had an effect. Also, didn’t I see another study on a preventative medicine (AZ, I believe) that showed 30% reduction in symptomatic cases, but it was dismissed because 30% was deemed as possibly coincidental?

[Loki]

The latest on impact of masks.

https://theweek.com/coronavirus/1004402/the-study-that-should-basically-end-any-scientific-debate-about-masks

[LuFins Dad]

You mean the study that did nothing of the sort? It ended no debate.

[Loki]

@lufins-dad said in "Do Masks Work?":

You mean the study that did nothing of the sort? It ended no debate.

What about the study did you take issue with? Over 300,000 individuals sounds like a lot but it was Bangladesh and it was likely not peer reviewed but it is the most serious attempt I’ve seen. Also it is not contaminated by US politics.

https://www.poverty-action.org/sites/default/files/publications/Mask_RCT____Symptomatic_Seropositivity_083121.pdf

[Aqua Letifer]

@lufins-dad said in "Do Masks Work?":

You mean the study that did nothing of the sort? It ended no debate.

What level of assurance would you need to feel comfortable with a rough rule of thumb?

[Jolly]

Full study, peer-reviewed on American soil and repeatable in a situation with a similar R.

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly said in "Do Masks Work?":

Full study, peer-reviewed on American soil and repeatable in a situation with a similar R.

We've got people who think that drinking lots of Indian tonic water helps keep you safe. I don't think the difference between double-blind and blind drunk is going to make much of an impact to a lot of folks.

[Mik]

The best information I can get hold of is this.

[George K]

It's really frustrating. People scream "Follow the science!" when there really is no good science that it makes a difference. Looking at North and South Dakota seems to be a good comparison (though, I'm sure there are many uncontrolled variables).

People who mask probably "socially distance." Which is the variable that makes a difference? I'll submit that we'll never know.

You're not going to get a good peer-reviewed double-blind study.

Those comments said, yeah, I wear a mask because, well, why the hell not? It might make a difference.

It might not.

But, I still don't see any compelling science.

[Mik]

I wore one today going into a small green grocer, because they recommended it. I did not when I got my haircut. Who knows. If I am in a place where a lot of folks are I don't mind.