"Flagging the problematic"

[Aqua Letifer]

@lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

Great! So he’s a big fat liar and actually hits me as skeevy, and is definitely not someone I would enjoy having a beer with. Does that justify my friend being sanctioned on platform AND having The Ministry of Truth making that determination?

First of all:
Facebook has about 58,000 employees. That’s one tenth of the number of new users that create profiles on the platform every 24 hours. For every 1 Facebook employee, there are 6 thousand photos alone that get posted every single day.

When you go to an ATM machine, do you think there's a little guy in the box handling the transaction? Your friend got suspended by an algorithm. Which means it's going to screw up quite a lot.

Second:
The principal question is whether or not false information about the pandemic should be censored. If you don't think so, then sit on your hands I guess because it's already happening, and no that isn't in any way unprecedented.

If you're unhappy with the way it's being handled, join the club. But you tell me how you regulate hundreds of millions of posts a day with a staff of that size without resorting to automation.

[Jolly]

@aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

@lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

Great! So he’s a big fat liar and actually hits me as skeevy, and is definitely not someone I would enjoy having a beer with. Does that justify my friend being sanctioned on platform AND having The Ministry of Truth making that determination?

First of all:
Facebook has about 58,000 employees. That’s one tenth of the number of new users that create profiles on the platform every 24 hours. For every 1 Facebook employee, there are 6 thousand photos alone that get posted every single day.

When you go to an ATM machine, do you think there's a little guy in the box handling the transaction? Your friend got suspended by an algorithm. Which means it's going to screw up quite a lot.

Second:
The principal question is whether or not false information about the pandemic should be censored. If you don't think so, then sit on your hands I guess because it's already happening, and no that isn't in any way unprecedented.

If you're unhappy with the way it's being handled, join the club. But you tell me how you regulate hundreds of millions of posts a day with a staff of that size without resorting to automation.

Simple. You don't.

Other than some really egregious stuff (child pornography, etc.), leave it alone.

[Aqua Letifer]

@jolly said in "Flagging the problematic":

Simple. You don't.
Other than some really egregious stuff (child pornography, etc.), leave it alone.

I'm not so sure, because there is no Marketplace of Ideas on Facebook. The very nature of the platform is echo chambers. That, and many folks from the casino gaming industry were hired by these platforms to help make them more addictive. That's how you get both Qanon and ACAB—social media is directly responsible.

I'm with Xenon; the platforms themselves need to be seriously regulated.

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly said in "Flagging the problematic":

@aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

@lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

Great! So he’s a big fat liar and actually hits me as skeevy, and is definitely not someone I would enjoy having a beer with. Does that justify my friend being sanctioned on platform AND having The Ministry of Truth making that determination?

First of all:
Facebook has about 58,000 employees. That’s one tenth of the number of new users that create profiles on the platform every 24 hours. For every 1 Facebook employee, there are 6 thousand photos alone that get posted every single day.

When you go to an ATM machine, do you think there's a little guy in the box handling the transaction? Your friend got suspended by an algorithm. Which means it's going to screw up quite a lot.

Second:
The principal question is whether or not false information about the pandemic should be censored. If you don't think so, then sit on your hands I guess because it's already happening, and no that isn't in any way unprecedented.

If you're unhappy with the way it's being handled, join the club. But you tell me how you regulate hundreds of millions of posts a day with a staff of that size without resorting to automation.

Simple. You don't.

Other than some really egregious stuff (child pornography, etc.), leave it alone.

Well, that's how you'd run the company. Mark Zuckerberg feels differently, as is his right, since it's his company.

Personally, I don't want to have to look at a load of toxic shit on Facebook. Lots of people, many of them non-Facebook users, feel differently. I don't agree with massive, biased censorship, but I also don't want to see a lot of fucking morons sharing their cretinous world view. I go there to stay in touch with my friends and family.

[Catseye3]

@aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

Facebook has about 58,000 employees. That’s one tenth of the number of new users that create profiles on the platform every 24 hours. For every 1 Facebook employee, there are 6 thousand photos alone that get posted every single day.

You've argued against your own position. How on earth can you "seriously regulate" such a thing?

In the end (and without thinking about it a whole lot) I have to side with Jolly. You don't, because you can't.

Maybe keep in mind that this is Biden -- that is, politicians -- talking. Politicians, as we know, will float all kinds of shit just to suss the public's reaction, without the intention of following through. And even if they did have the intention, do you seriously think they have the capacity to do what they're saying?

As much as I side with Phibes on this, I instinctively oppose censorship. The social media are a festering monster, but we are apparently stuck with it.

[LuFins Dad]

@aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

@lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

Great! So he’s a big fat liar and actually hits me as skeevy, and is definitely not someone I would enjoy having a beer with. Does that justify my friend being sanctioned on platform AND having The Ministry of Truth making that determination?

First of all:
Facebook has about 58,000 employees. That’s one tenth of the number of new users that create profiles on the platform every 24 hours. For every 1 Facebook employee, there are 6 thousand photos alone that get posted every single day.

When you go to an ATM machine, do you think there's a little guy in the box handling the transaction? Your friend got suspended by an algorithm. Which means it's going to screw up quite a lot.

Second:
The principal question is whether or not false information about the pandemic should be censored. If you don't think so, then sit on your hands I guess because it's already happening, and no that isn't in any way unprecedented.

If you're unhappy with the way it's being handled, join the club. But you tell me how you regulate hundreds of millions of posts a day with a staff of that size without resorting to automation.

To point number one, good news! The Biden Administration is helping! That’s what takes this whole thing from a level 15 on my Give-a-Shit Meter to a 200. This is no longer Facebook flagging posts, it’s essentially the US Government. That doesn’t make you stand up and pay attention?

[Aqua Letifer]

@lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

To point number one, good news! The Biden Administration is helping! That’s what takes this whole thing from a level 15 on my Give-a-Shit Meter to a 200. This is no longer Facebook flagging posts, it’s essentially the US Government. That doesn’t make you stand up and pay attention?

Absolutely not.

1. Media and government have coordinated many times in the past. This isn't new.
2. The government has and continues to do far, far worse when it comes to manipulating public information, censorship, and destroying personal privacy. In my opinion, you're running around pointing at a dumpster fire in Jonestown.

[Doctor Phibes]

@catseye3 said in "Flagging the problematic":

As much as I side with Phibes on this, I instinctively oppose censorship. The social media are a festering monster, but we are apparently stuck with it.

If they completely deregulate Facebook, I will stop using it, because it will become a cesspool.

I would suggest that I'm more of a typical FB user than anybody else in this thread, so what does that tell you about what FB should do? Should they go after all the libertarians and defenders of freedom who hardly ever use the website anyway, or should they stick with the boring people who like to talk with their families and share pictures of cats?

Essentially, we're in danger of listening to a bunch of people who never do something arguing about how it should be done.

[Catseye3]

@doctor-phibes said in "Flagging the problematic":

If they completely deregulate Facebook, I will stop using it, because it will become a cesspool.

Remember that old meme, what if they gave a war and nobody came?

The truly horrifying aspect of social media is that their influence can never be undone. They could go dark tomorrow, but the moronic element, which has now tasted the power of being heard and responded to, no longer confined by their fear of appearing stupid, will not do without. Somehow the whole megilla will rise again. And again and again, world without end.

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in "Flagging the problematic":

@jolly said in "Flagging the problematic":

@aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

@lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

Great! So he’s a big fat liar and actually hits me as skeevy, and is definitely not someone I would enjoy having a beer with. Does that justify my friend being sanctioned on platform AND having The Ministry of Truth making that determination?

First of all:
Facebook has about 58,000 employees. That’s one tenth of the number of new users that create profiles on the platform every 24 hours. For every 1 Facebook employee, there are 6 thousand photos alone that get posted every single day.

When you go to an ATM machine, do you think there's a little guy in the box handling the transaction? Your friend got suspended by an algorithm. Which means it's going to screw up quite a lot.

Second:
The principal question is whether or not false information about the pandemic should be censored. If you don't think so, then sit on your hands I guess because it's already happening, and no that isn't in any way unprecedented.

If you're unhappy with the way it's being handled, join the club. But you tell me how you regulate hundreds of millions of posts a day with a staff of that size without resorting to automation.

Simple. You don't.

Other than some really egregious stuff (child pornography, etc.), leave it alone.

Well, that's how you'd run the company. Mark Zuckerberg feels differently, as is his right, since it's his company.

Personally, I don't want to have to look at a load of toxic shit on Facebook. Lots of people, many of them non-Facebook users, feel differently. I don't agree with massive, biased censorship, but I also don't want to see a lot of fucking morons sharing their cretinous world view. I go there to stay in touch with my friends and family.

Yes, but can't you choose who to friend or not? If you don't like somebody's views, don't let them in you "front door".

[Jolly]

@aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

@lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

To point number one, good news! The Biden Administration is helping! That’s what takes this whole thing from a level 15 on my Give-a-Shit Meter to a 200. This is no longer Facebook flagging posts, it’s essentially the US Government. That doesn’t make you stand up and pay attention?

Absolutely not.

1. Media and government have coordinated many times in the past. This isn't new.
2. The government has and continues to do far, far worse when it comes to manipulating public information, censorship, and destroying personal privacy. In my opinion, you're running around pointing at a dumpster fire in Jonestown.

Therefore, do nothing?

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly said in "Flagging the problematic":

@doctor-phibes said in "Flagging the problematic":

@jolly said in "Flagging the problematic":

@aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

@lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

Great! So he’s a big fat liar and actually hits me as skeevy, and is definitely not someone I would enjoy having a beer with. Does that justify my friend being sanctioned on platform AND having The Ministry of Truth making that determination?

First of all:
Facebook has about 58,000 employees. That’s one tenth of the number of new users that create profiles on the platform every 24 hours. For every 1 Facebook employee, there are 6 thousand photos alone that get posted every single day.

When you go to an ATM machine, do you think there's a little guy in the box handling the transaction? Your friend got suspended by an algorithm. Which means it's going to screw up quite a lot.

Second:
The principal question is whether or not false information about the pandemic should be censored. If you don't think so, then sit on your hands I guess because it's already happening, and no that isn't in any way unprecedented.

If you're unhappy with the way it's being handled, join the club. But you tell me how you regulate hundreds of millions of posts a day with a staff of that size without resorting to automation.

Simple. You don't.

Other than some really egregious stuff (child pornography, etc.), leave it alone.

Well, that's how you'd run the company. Mark Zuckerberg feels differently, as is his right, since it's his company.

Personally, I don't want to have to look at a load of toxic shit on Facebook. Lots of people, many of them non-Facebook users, feel differently. I don't agree with massive, biased censorship, but I also don't want to see a lot of fucking morons sharing their cretinous world view. I go there to stay in touch with my friends and family.

Yes, but can't you choose who to friend or not? If you don't like somebody's views, don't let them in you "front door".

The problem is it tends to spread, covering everything. Friends of friends, and what-not. And if you join a group, that gets dragged in. There's a reason they call it viral.

I don't want to have to worry about it.

[xenon]

I'm not usually a "sky is falling down" type guy. But I think the internet - social media specifically - is eroding the fabric of national politics as we understand it.

Modern nation states beyond city-states (and empires) are a recently new political construct.

I think social media has the potential to fracture states.

This "censorship of conservatives" is a small potatoes complaints.

[Doctor Phibes]

I should say, I'm not a fan of censorship, at all. I just don't know what the solution is.

I don't think there's an easy solution that doesn't create another huge problem.

The other thing to consider is that so many countries have different expectations, and we're expecting Facebook to satisfy all of them.

[Aqua Letifer]

@jolly said in "Flagging the problematic":

@aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

@lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

To point number one, good news! The Biden Administration is helping! That’s what takes this whole thing from a level 15 on my Give-a-Shit Meter to a 200. This is no longer Facebook flagging posts, it’s essentially the US Government. That doesn’t make you stand up and pay attention?

Absolutely not.

1. Media and government have coordinated many times in the past. This isn't new.
2. The government has and continues to do far, far worse when it comes to manipulating public information, censorship, and destroying personal privacy. In my opinion, you're running around pointing at a dumpster fire in Jonestown.

Therefore, do nothing?

No, but you're not likely to be effective if you don't know what's going on and have no context.

[Copper]

Bobby Kennedy's boy

White House turns up heat on Big Tech's Covid 'disinformation dozen'

(CNN Business)The White House turned up the pressure on Silicon Valley to get a handle on vaccine misinformation Thursday, specifically singling out 12 people one group dubbed the "disinformation dozen," saying they were responsible for a great deal of misinformation about Covid-19.

"There's about 12 people who are producing 65% of anti-vaccine misinformation on social media platforms," White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said Thursday.

That statistic is from the nonprofit Center for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH) which identified in a report published in March about a dozen people it said were super-spreaders of anti-vaccine misinformation.

The CCDH had at the time called on Facebook and Twitter to shut down all pages run by those people.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a prominent figure in the anti-vaccine movement, is among the people whom the CCDH said should be kicked off social media.

Kennedy's page on Facebook-owned Instagram was shut down earlier this year for sharing Covid-19 misinformation, Facebook said. However, Kennedy is still allowed on Facebook (FB) itself, and he has more than 300,000 followers on the platform.

[George K]

RFK Jr?

Pffft.

Here's some real vaccine fear-mongering:

[George K]

And if we're going to be "flagging" things that are not based in fact, well...

And this

Will Twitter suspend Psaki's account for spreading misinformation?

[George K]

Damn.

I should have listened.

Thanks, Kos.