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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. "Flagging the problematic"

"Flagging the problematic"

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  • X Online
    X Online
    xenon
    wrote on last edited by xenon
    #12

    I think we need novel legislation for the internet.

    It’s different enough that it warrants original legal thinking.

    The old trust and monopoly frameworks were made for a different time and different problem.

    George KG 1 Reply Last reply
    • X xenon

      I think we need novel legislation for the internet.

      It’s different enough that it warrants original legal thinking.

      The old trust and monopoly frameworks were made for a different time and different problem.

      George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #13

      @xenon said in "Flagging the problematic":

      I think we need novel legislation for the internet.

      Nah, just build your own internet...

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

        Uh, no. In the days of old, the press would coordinate regularly with the feds regarding WWII coverage.

        I'm not saying I like the above, but calling it fascism is histrionic AF.

        LuFins DadL Offline
        LuFins DadL Offline
        LuFins Dad
        wrote on last edited by
        #14

        @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

        Uh, no. In the days of old, the press would coordinate regularly with the feds regarding WWII coverage.

        I'm not saying I like the above, but calling it fascism is histrionic AF.

        Working with the press to fashion your message is one thing but working with a media platform to censor and remove contradictory news, thoughts, and information? That is fascism right to the core. Removing “wrong” thought.

        The Brad

        Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
        • Catseye3C Catseye3

          @george-k said in "Flagging the problematic":

          @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

          In the days of old, the press would coordinate regularly with the feds regarding WWII coverage.

          Yes, I'm aware of that. Have they admitted to been doing any censorship between 1945 and 2021?

          I can't say for sure, but it would totally not surprise me if such coordination has gone on on the regular since WWII. Vietnam, especially pertaining to the unrest; the pandemic, and for certain over the Trump candidacy and even more certainly over his time in the White House.

          ETA: Probably govt and the press have been complicit any number of times to conceal various shenanigans deemed harmful if they got out.

          LuFins DadL Offline
          LuFins DadL Offline
          LuFins Dad
          wrote on last edited by
          #15

          @catseye3 said in "Flagging the problematic":

          @george-k said in "Flagging the problematic":

          @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":
          

          In the days of old, the press would coordinate regularly with the feds regarding WWII coverage.

          Yes, I'm aware of that. Have they admitted to been doing any censorship between 1945 and 2021?

          I can't say for sure, but it would totally not surprise me if such coordination has gone on on the regular since WWII. Vietnam, especially pertaining to the unrest; the pandemic, and for certain over the Trump candidacy and even more certainly over his time in the White House.

          ETA: Probably govt and the press have been complicit any number of times to conceal various shenanigans deemed harmful if they got out.

          Again, conspiring with media to craft a message is one thing, conspiring with platforms to remove contradictory messages is another.

          The Brad

          Catseye3C 1 Reply Last reply
          • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

            @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

            Uh, no. In the days of old, the press would coordinate regularly with the feds regarding WWII coverage.

            I'm not saying I like the above, but calling it fascism is histrionic AF.

            Working with the press to fashion your message is one thing but working with a media platform to censor and remove contradictory news, thoughts, and information? That is fascism right to the core. Removing “wrong” thought.

            Aqua LetiferA Offline
            Aqua LetiferA Offline
            Aqua Letifer
            wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
            #16

            @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

            @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

            Uh, no. In the days of old, the press would coordinate regularly with the feds regarding WWII coverage.

            I'm not saying I like the above, but calling it fascism is histrionic AF.

            Working with the press to fashion your message is one thing but working with a media platform to censor and remove contradictory news, thoughts, and information? That is fascism right to the core. Removing “wrong” thought.

            These aren't "contradictory views," there's absolutely insane shit being promoted out there that's causing people to not get vaccinated. That puts them, everyone around them, and everyone else still living at greater risk.

            Please love yourself.

            LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
            • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

              @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

              @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

              Uh, no. In the days of old, the press would coordinate regularly with the feds regarding WWII coverage.

              I'm not saying I like the above, but calling it fascism is histrionic AF.

              Working with the press to fashion your message is one thing but working with a media platform to censor and remove contradictory news, thoughts, and information? That is fascism right to the core. Removing “wrong” thought.

              These aren't "contradictory views," there's absolutely insane shit being promoted out there that's causing people to not get vaccinated. That puts them, everyone around them, and everyone else still living at greater risk.

              LuFins DadL Offline
              LuFins DadL Offline
              LuFins Dad
              wrote on last edited by
              #17

              @aqua-letifer batshit? Like the virus escaped from the lab? That’s one of the batshit (kind of appropriate) contradictory ideas that has been removed.

              How about natural immunity? Test after test has shown that people that have had the virus have as good of an immune response or better than those with the vaccines, yet those posts have been flagged recently. Info on various treatments that are still being tested get’s flagged. Let’s not even talk about the arguments over anti-malarials. There are credible tests and scientists disputing one another on this, but one side doesn’t match the message so they are batshit crazy…

              The Brad

              Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
              • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                @aqua-letifer batshit? Like the virus escaped from the lab? That’s one of the batshit (kind of appropriate) contradictory ideas that has been removed.

                How about natural immunity? Test after test has shown that people that have had the virus have as good of an immune response or better than those with the vaccines, yet those posts have been flagged recently. Info on various treatments that are still being tested get’s flagged. Let’s not even talk about the arguments over anti-malarials. There are credible tests and scientists disputing one another on this, but one side doesn’t match the message so they are batshit crazy…

                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua Letifer
                wrote on last edited by
                #18

                @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                @aqua-letifer batshit? Like the virus escaped from the lab? That’s one of the batshit (kind of appropriate) contradictory ideas that has been removed.

                How about natural immunity? Test after test has shown that people that have had the virus have as good of an immune response or better than those with the vaccines, yet those posts have been flagged recently. Info on various treatments that are still being tested get’s flagged. Let’s not even talk about the arguments over anti-malarials. There are credible tests and scientists disputing one another on this, but one side doesn’t match the message so they are batshit crazy…

                Fucking shit. Yes that's exactly what I had in mind when I said batshit crazy. Thank you for filling in the blanks so accurately.

                You know if you want to talk to a proxy for liberal politics be my guest but that's not me, so I'll let you carry on, you're doing fine by yourself.

                Please love yourself.

                LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                • JollyJ Offline
                  JollyJ Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #19

                  Shucks, I thought he had a point...

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • George KG Offline
                    George KG Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #20

                    Hunter Biden's laptop was deemed "problematic," and that may have cost Trump the election.

                    May have.

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                      @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                      @aqua-letifer batshit? Like the virus escaped from the lab? That’s one of the batshit (kind of appropriate) contradictory ideas that has been removed.

                      How about natural immunity? Test after test has shown that people that have had the virus have as good of an immune response or better than those with the vaccines, yet those posts have been flagged recently. Info on various treatments that are still being tested get’s flagged. Let’s not even talk about the arguments over anti-malarials. There are credible tests and scientists disputing one another on this, but one side doesn’t match the message so they are batshit crazy…

                      Fucking shit. Yes that's exactly what I had in mind when I said batshit crazy. Thank you for filling in the blanks so accurately.

                      You know if you want to talk to a proxy for liberal politics be my guest but that's not me, so I'll let you carry on, you're doing fine by yourself.

                      LuFins DadL Offline
                      LuFins DadL Offline
                      LuFins Dad
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #21

                      @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

                      @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                      @aqua-letifer batshit? Like the virus escaped from the lab? That’s one of the batshit (kind of appropriate) contradictory ideas that has been removed.

                      How about natural immunity? Test after test has shown that people that have had the virus have as good of an immune response or better than those with the vaccines, yet those posts have been flagged recently. Info on various treatments that are still being tested get’s flagged. Let’s not even talk about the arguments over anti-malarials. There are credible tests and scientists disputing one another on this, but one side doesn’t match the message so they are batshit crazy…

                      Fucking shit. Yes that's exactly what I had in mind when I said batshit crazy. Thank you for filling in the blanks so accurately.

                      You know if you want to talk to a proxy for liberal politics be my guest but that's not me, so I'll let you carry on, you're doing fine by yourself.

                      An acquaintance of mine had his sharing privileges removed yesterday for trying to share this video. It’s kind of stupid, but does not justify administrative sanction -

                      Link to video

                      The Brad

                      George KG JollyJ Aqua LetiferA 3 Replies Last reply
                      • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                        @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

                        @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                        @aqua-letifer batshit? Like the virus escaped from the lab? That’s one of the batshit (kind of appropriate) contradictory ideas that has been removed.

                        How about natural immunity? Test after test has shown that people that have had the virus have as good of an immune response or better than those with the vaccines, yet those posts have been flagged recently. Info on various treatments that are still being tested get’s flagged. Let’s not even talk about the arguments over anti-malarials. There are credible tests and scientists disputing one another on this, but one side doesn’t match the message so they are batshit crazy…

                        Fucking shit. Yes that's exactly what I had in mind when I said batshit crazy. Thank you for filling in the blanks so accurately.

                        You know if you want to talk to a proxy for liberal politics be my guest but that's not me, so I'll let you carry on, you're doing fine by yourself.

                        An acquaintance of mine had his sharing privileges removed yesterday for trying to share this video. It’s kind of stupid, but does not justify administrative sanction -

                        Link to video

                        George KG Offline
                        George KG Offline
                        George K
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #22

                        @lufins-dad Jon would tap that.

                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                        Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                        • George KG George K

                          @lufins-dad Jon would tap that.

                          Doctor PhibesD Offline
                          Doctor PhibesD Offline
                          Doctor Phibes
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #23

                          @george-k said in "Flagging the problematic":

                          @lufins-dad Jon would tap that.

                          The carrot-top lookalike or the woman with PMS?

                          I was only joking

                          George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                          • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                            @george-k said in "Flagging the problematic":

                            @lufins-dad Jon would tap that.

                            The carrot-top lookalike or the woman with PMS?

                            George KG Offline
                            George KG Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #24

                            @doctor-phibes said in "Flagging the problematic":

                            @george-k said in "Flagging the problematic":

                            @lufins-dad Jon would tap that.

                            The carrot-top lookalike or the woman with PMS?

                            Yes.

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                              @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

                              @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                              @aqua-letifer batshit? Like the virus escaped from the lab? That’s one of the batshit (kind of appropriate) contradictory ideas that has been removed.

                              How about natural immunity? Test after test has shown that people that have had the virus have as good of an immune response or better than those with the vaccines, yet those posts have been flagged recently. Info on various treatments that are still being tested get’s flagged. Let’s not even talk about the arguments over anti-malarials. There are credible tests and scientists disputing one another on this, but one side doesn’t match the message so they are batshit crazy…

                              Fucking shit. Yes that's exactly what I had in mind when I said batshit crazy. Thank you for filling in the blanks so accurately.

                              You know if you want to talk to a proxy for liberal politics be my guest but that's not me, so I'll let you carry on, you're doing fine by yourself.

                              An acquaintance of mine had his sharing privileges removed yesterday for trying to share this video. It’s kind of stupid, but does not justify administrative sanction -

                              Link to video

                              JollyJ Offline
                              JollyJ Offline
                              Jolly
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #25

                              @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                              @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

                              @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                              @aqua-letifer batshit? Like the virus escaped from the lab? That’s one of the batshit (kind of appropriate) contradictory ideas that has been removed.

                              How about natural immunity? Test after test has shown that people that have had the virus have as good of an immune response or better than those with the vaccines, yet those posts have been flagged recently. Info on various treatments that are still being tested get’s flagged. Let’s not even talk about the arguments over anti-malarials. There are credible tests and scientists disputing one another on this, but one side doesn’t match the message so they are batshit crazy…

                              Fucking shit. Yes that's exactly what I had in mind when I said batshit crazy. Thank you for filling in the blanks so accurately.

                              You know if you want to talk to a proxy for liberal politics be my guest but that's not me, so I'll let you carry on, you're doing fine by yourself.

                              An acquaintance of mine had his sharing privileges removed yesterday for trying to share this video. It’s kind of stupid, but does not justify administrative sanction -

                              Link to video

                              They'd probably whack half the stuff from his YouTube channel....

                              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                                @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                @aqua-letifer batshit? Like the virus escaped from the lab? That’s one of the batshit (kind of appropriate) contradictory ideas that has been removed.

                                How about natural immunity? Test after test has shown that people that have had the virus have as good of an immune response or better than those with the vaccines, yet those posts have been flagged recently. Info on various treatments that are still being tested get’s flagged. Let’s not even talk about the arguments over anti-malarials. There are credible tests and scientists disputing one another on this, but one side doesn’t match the message so they are batshit crazy…

                                Fucking shit. Yes that's exactly what I had in mind when I said batshit crazy. Thank you for filling in the blanks so accurately.

                                You know if you want to talk to a proxy for liberal politics be my guest but that's not me, so I'll let you carry on, you're doing fine by yourself.

                                An acquaintance of mine had his sharing privileges removed yesterday for trying to share this video. It’s kind of stupid, but does not justify administrative sanction -

                                Link to video

                                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                Aqua Letifer
                                wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
                                #26

                                @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                @aqua-letifer batshit? Like the virus escaped from the lab? That’s one of the batshit (kind of appropriate) contradictory ideas that has been removed.

                                How about natural immunity? Test after test has shown that people that have had the virus have as good of an immune response or better than those with the vaccines, yet those posts have been flagged recently. Info on various treatments that are still being tested get’s flagged. Let’s not even talk about the arguments over anti-malarials. There are credible tests and scientists disputing one another on this, but one side doesn’t match the message so they are batshit crazy…

                                Fucking shit. Yes that's exactly what I had in mind when I said batshit crazy. Thank you for filling in the blanks so accurately.

                                You know if you want to talk to a proxy for liberal politics be my guest but that's not me, so I'll let you carry on, you're doing fine by yourself.

                                An acquaintance of mine had his sharing privileges removed yesterday for trying to share this video. It’s kind of stupid, but does not justify administrative sanction -

                                Link to video

                                That's a fine story and I enjoyed it.

                                JP Spears is the same motherfucker who claimed nearly everyone who was dying of COVID had insufficient Vitamin D. Oh, and he was also a speaker at this bullshit. From the website:

                                Learn to legally protect yourself from forced vaccinations, mask mandates, and other forms of medical tyranny.

                                From his video on "How to Be Mind-Controlled":

                                I want to be heavily vaccinated so I can be protected from the diseases that I’ve been told to be extremely afraid of.

                                Please, do go on about innocent ol' JP and how is videos are just funny and silly and you live in a fascist demon-rat autocracy, it's hilarious.

                                Please love yourself.

                                LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                                • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                  Doctor Phibes
                                  wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                                  #27

                                  Yeah, he's a moronic twat, who is almost certainly causing actual damage to some parts of the population.

                                  But how do we best deal with this?

                                  I was only joking

                                  Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                                    Yeah, he's a moronic twat, who is almost certainly causing actual damage to some parts of the population.

                                    But how do we best deal with this?

                                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                    Aqua Letifer
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #28

                                    @doctor-phibes said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                    Yeah, he's a moronic twat, who is almost certainly causing actual damage to some parts of the population.

                                    But how do we best deal with this?

                                    With many mistakes. No way around that.

                                    Please love yourself.

                                    Doctor PhibesD Catseye3C 2 Replies Last reply
                                    • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                                      @catseye3 said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                      @george-k said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                      @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":
                                      

                                      In the days of old, the press would coordinate regularly with the feds regarding WWII coverage.

                                      Yes, I'm aware of that. Have they admitted to been doing any censorship between 1945 and 2021?

                                      I can't say for sure, but it would totally not surprise me if such coordination has gone on on the regular since WWII. Vietnam, especially pertaining to the unrest; the pandemic, and for certain over the Trump candidacy and even more certainly over his time in the White House.

                                      ETA: Probably govt and the press have been complicit any number of times to conceal various shenanigans deemed harmful if they got out.

                                      Again, conspiring with media to craft a message is one thing, conspiring with platforms to remove contradictory messages is another.

                                      Catseye3C Offline
                                      Catseye3C Offline
                                      Catseye3
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #29

                                      @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                      conspiring with media to craft a message is one thing, conspiring with platforms to remove contradictory messages is another.

                                      But how would you know the difference if messages were removed beforehand?

                                      Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                                      LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • Catseye3C Catseye3

                                        @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                        conspiring with media to craft a message is one thing, conspiring with platforms to remove contradictory messages is another.

                                        But how would you know the difference if messages were removed beforehand?

                                        LuFins DadL Offline
                                        LuFins DadL Offline
                                        LuFins Dad
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #30

                                        @catseye3 said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                        @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                        conspiring with media to craft a message is one thing, conspiring with platforms to remove contradictory messages is another.

                                        But how would you know the difference if messages were removed beforehand?

                                        So if you don’t know then it’s okay?

                                        The Brad

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                                          @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                          @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                          @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                          @aqua-letifer batshit? Like the virus escaped from the lab? That’s one of the batshit (kind of appropriate) contradictory ideas that has been removed.

                                          How about natural immunity? Test after test has shown that people that have had the virus have as good of an immune response or better than those with the vaccines, yet those posts have been flagged recently. Info on various treatments that are still being tested get’s flagged. Let’s not even talk about the arguments over anti-malarials. There are credible tests and scientists disputing one another on this, but one side doesn’t match the message so they are batshit crazy…

                                          Fucking shit. Yes that's exactly what I had in mind when I said batshit crazy. Thank you for filling in the blanks so accurately.

                                          You know if you want to talk to a proxy for liberal politics be my guest but that's not me, so I'll let you carry on, you're doing fine by yourself.

                                          An acquaintance of mine had his sharing privileges removed yesterday for trying to share this video. It’s kind of stupid, but does not justify administrative sanction -

                                          Link to video

                                          That's a fine story and I enjoyed it.

                                          JP Spears is the same motherfucker who claimed nearly everyone who was dying of COVID had insufficient Vitamin D. Oh, and he was also a speaker at this bullshit. From the website:

                                          Learn to legally protect yourself from forced vaccinations, mask mandates, and other forms of medical tyranny.

                                          From his video on "How to Be Mind-Controlled":

                                          I want to be heavily vaccinated so I can be protected from the diseases that I’ve been told to be extremely afraid of.

                                          Please, do go on about innocent ol' JP and how is videos are just funny and silly and you live in a fascist demon-rat autocracy, it's hilarious.

                                          LuFins DadL Offline
                                          LuFins DadL Offline
                                          LuFins Dad
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #31

                                          @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                          @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                          @aqua-letifer said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                          @lufins-dad said in "Flagging the problematic":

                                          @aqua-letifer batshit? Like the virus escaped from the lab? That’s one of the batshit (kind of appropriate) contradictory ideas that has been removed.

                                          How about natural immunity? Test after test has shown that people that have had the virus have as good of an immune response or better than those with the vaccines, yet those posts have been flagged recently. Info on various treatments that are still being tested get’s flagged. Let’s not even talk about the arguments over anti-malarials. There are credible tests and scientists disputing one another on this, but one side doesn’t match the message so they are batshit crazy…

                                          Fucking shit. Yes that's exactly what I had in mind when I said batshit crazy. Thank you for filling in the blanks so accurately.

                                          You know if you want to talk to a proxy for liberal politics be my guest but that's not me, so I'll let you carry on, you're doing fine by yourself.

                                          An acquaintance of mine had his sharing privileges removed yesterday for trying to share this video. It’s kind of stupid, but does not justify administrative sanction -

                                          Link to video

                                          That's a fine story and I enjoyed it.

                                          JP Spears is the same motherfucker who claimed nearly everyone who was dying of COVID had insufficient Vitamin D. Oh, and he was also a speaker at this bullshit. From the website:

                                          Learn to legally protect yourself from forced vaccinations, mask mandates, and other forms of medical tyranny.

                                          From his video on "How to Be Mind-Controlled":

                                          I want to be heavily vaccinated so I can be protected from the diseases that I’ve been told to be extremely afraid of.

                                          Please, do go on about innocent ol' JP and how is videos are just funny and silly and you live in a fascist demon-rat autocracy, it's hilarious.

                                          Great! So he’s a big fat liar and actually hits me as skeevy, and is definitely not someone I would enjoy having a beer with. Does that justify my friend being sanctioned on platform AND having The Ministry of Truth making that determination?

                                          The Brad

                                          JollyJ Aqua LetiferA 2 Replies Last reply
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