Meanwhile, on Long Island...
-
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 22:12 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
-
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 22:16 last edited by -
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 23:01 last edited by@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
-
wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 23:12 last edited by
What would you call the killing of an innocent by the murderer that wasn't executed?
A price worth paying to achieve woke?
What would you call the killing of an innocent by the murderer that wasn't discouraged by possible execution?
A price worth paying to achieve woke?
OK, that's reasonable.
I tend to favor the innocent over the murderer, but to each his own.
-
What would you call the killing of an innocent by the murderer that wasn't executed?
A price worth paying to achieve woke?
What would you call the killing of an innocent by the murderer that wasn't discouraged by possible execution?
A price worth paying to achieve woke?
OK, that's reasonable.
I tend to favor the innocent over the murderer, but to each his own.
wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 23:44 last edited by@copper said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
I tend to favor the innocent over the murderer, but to each his own.
Except when they've been wrongfully convicted, it would appear.
-
@copper said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
I tend to favor the innocent over the murderer, but to each his own.
Except when they've been wrongfully convicted, it would appear.
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 00:10 last edited by@Copper Dude why even reply, it's obvious you're not trying to understand anybody. Jolly will at least try to interpret posts he disagrees with.
-
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 00:42 last edited by Jolly@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
-
@Copper Dude why even reply, it's obvious you're not trying to understand anybody. Jolly will at least try to interpret posts he disagrees with.
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 01:39 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@Copper Dude why even reply, it's obvious you're not trying to understand anybody. Jolly will at least try to interpret posts he disagrees with.
I understand exactly
You refuse to consider the whole story, I'm helping you do that
The wrongfully convicted are a sad consequence of imperfection
But that is not the whole story
Stomp your feet if you like, I'll still be here to help
-
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 03:24 last edited by Doctor Phibes@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
-
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 11:33 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.
-
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@Copper Dude why even reply, it's obvious you're not trying to understand anybody. Jolly will at least try to interpret posts he disagrees with.
I understand exactly
You refuse to consider the whole story, I'm helping you do that
The wrongfully convicted are a sad consequence of imperfection
But that is not the whole story
Stomp your feet if you like, I'll still be here to help
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 13:58 last edited by Renauda@copper said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@Copper Dude why even reply, it's obvious you're not trying to understand anybody. Jolly will at least try to interpret posts he disagrees with.
I understand exactly....
The wrongfully convicted are a sad consequence of imperfection
Well at least that is sorted out. Which ever poison works best for you. You're probably right either way. Time to round up the usual suspects, eh?
-
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 17:02 last edited by Doctor Phibes@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.
So maybe only execute religious people?
If I was going to be executed for a crime I hadn't committed, I would find the idea that it was all OK because of somebody else's religious beliefs to be extremely tiresome.
-
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 17:50 last edited by Renauda
Oh look a crack in the judicial system! Get out the bucket of God spackle and fill it with merciful theodicy. That'll surely make it good and bring comfort to all.
To me the invocation of divine justice just seems like a cop out or lame excuse not to make the judicial system less imperfect than it already is.
-
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.
So maybe only execute religious people?
If I was going to be executed for a crime I hadn't committed, I would find the idea that it was all OK because of somebody else's religious beliefs to be extremely tiresome.
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 18:43 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.
So maybe only execute religious people?
If I was going to be executed for a crime I hadn't committed, I would find the idea that it was all OK because of somebody else's religious beliefs to be extremely tiresome.
I suspect most people before execution become quite religious.
-
Oh look a crack in the judicial system! Get out the bucket of God spackle and fill it with merciful theodicy. That'll surely make it good and bring comfort to all.
To me the invocation of divine justice just seems like a cop out or lame excuse not to make the judicial system less imperfect than it already is.
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 18:44 last edited by@renauda said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Oh look a crack in the judicial system! Get out the bucket of God spackle and fill it with merciful theodicy. That'll surely make it good and bring comfort to all.
To me the invocation of divine justice just seems like a cop out or lame excuse not to make the judicial system less imperfect than it already is.
That opinion and $1 (American) will buy you a senior coffee at McDonald's.
-
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 18:48 last edited by Jolly
Lastly...If I gave y'all $70 every day, to spend on anything you wished for any poor family you deemed deserving, what would you buy them?
-
Lastly...If I gave y'all $70 every day, to spend on anything you wished for any poor family you deemed deserving, what would you buy them?
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 18:53 last edited by@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Lastly...If I gave y'all $70 every day, to spend on anything you wished for any poor family you deemed deserving, what would you buy them?
Ammo
-
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.
So maybe only execute religious people?
If I was going to be executed for a crime I hadn't committed, I would find the idea that it was all OK because of somebody else's religious beliefs to be extremely tiresome.
I suspect most people before execution become quite religious.
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 19:26 last edited by@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.
So maybe only execute religious people?
If I was going to be executed for a crime I hadn't committed, I would find the idea that it was all OK because of somebody else's religious beliefs to be extremely tiresome.
I suspect most people before execution become quite religious.
Using Jesus as an excuse for killing innocent people mostly died out in the middle ages.
-
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.
So maybe only execute religious people?
If I was going to be executed for a crime I hadn't committed, I would find the idea that it was all OK because of somebody else's religious beliefs to be extremely tiresome.
I suspect most people before execution become quite religious.
Using Jesus as an excuse for killing innocent people mostly died out in the middle ages.
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 19:38 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Using Jesus as an excuse for killing innocent people mostly died out in the middle ages.
The argument that Jesus would emphatically endorse killing innocent people is hilariously dense. You can't reach the bottom of stupid that runs that deep.
-
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Using Jesus as an excuse for killing innocent people mostly died out in the middle ages.
The argument that Jesus would emphatically endorse killing innocent people is hilariously dense. You can't reach the bottom of stupid that runs that deep.
wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 20:18 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Using Jesus as an excuse for killing innocent people mostly died out in the middle ages.
The argument that Jesus would emphatically endorse killing innocent people is hilariously dense. You can't reach the bottom of stupid that runs that deep.
No, but Jesus had no problem executing guilty people. And he'll have no problem throwing folks into the depths of Hell after the White Throne Judgement, will he?
If you'd like to argue either of those points, back your point up with scripture.
Now, back to your original, silly statement. Jesus does have a problem with executing innocent people, but Jesus doesn't sit as the judge in the courtroom (not that I've seen or heard about) and Jesus doesn't sit in the jury box.
Men do.
Imperfect men, trying to create as much order out of chaos as they can, equitably and fairly. Does the system always work? No. Man is not a perfect being, so perfection is an unobtainable standard. But that does not mean we throw our hands up, don our antifa shirts and descend into anarchy? No, it does not.
We do the best we can, given all the politics, quirks and foibles of mankind. Guess what? In a good system, man gets it right most of the time. According to you, in capital cases, man is 96% right. I think we can tweek that, primarily through better legal representation, and probably get it to about 98%-99% right.
But you are still going to point to that one man out of a hundred. I'm going to point to the 99 who were rightly convicted. Those 99 person are costing me in excess of $2.5M/yr of incarceration.
I'd rather do two things:
- Ensure justice is meted out equitable and fairly.
- Use my $2.5M for something better than housing rapists, murderers and people who douse other people in acid.