Guilty, guilty, guilty
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@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
Even Barr quashed a plea deal where Chauvin agreed to go to prison for 10 years. It’s clear as day that Chauvin had his knee on the neck of an unresponsive mentally ill man. When the police not only don’t protect you from dying but stays on the neck for 4 minutes after he stops moving, it tells me you just never watched the video.
This is getting silly.
Now the overreach on “systemic racism”, and defund the police, that’s a worthy topic of debate.
No, what you are seeing is cellphone video. Bodycam video has never been released to the public. I'd like to see what led up to the arrest and restraint.
I think the Murder 3 was adequate. Floyd was high enough that just the drugs in his system could have impacted his breathing. The cop overdid it, but I believe he was using an approved technique.
Unless you have dealt with people like Floyd...High and possibly mentally ill, you just haven't had a fun day. I've been attacked with a butter knife, had a nude woman run through my work place screaming, etc.
I tackled the naked woman and I had both knees on her, pinning her down when the security guard ran up and told me I couldn't do that. I told Richard, "She's all yours". Then I propped up on the counter and laughed my ass off, as that woman whipped Richard's ass all over the lab.
But beside whether the cop was guilty or not, and besides how you handle mentally ill people in a combative situation, the fact remains that what we witnessed was not a fair trial. At the end of the day, the system has to be vuewed as fair and just...Or we don 't have any Justice at all...
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@jolly said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
At the end of the day, the system has to be vuewed as fair and just...Or we don 't have any Justice at all...
Today, for this case, you do not view it as “fair and just.” Had the case been decided another way, it would just be some other people who would not view it as “fair and just.” In any given day, there will always be some people who do not view the system as “fair and just.”
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@axtremus said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@jolly said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
At the end of the day, the system has to be vuewed as fair and just...Or we don 't have any Justice at all...
Today, for this case, you do not view it as “fair and just.” Had the case been decided another way, it would just be some other people who would not view it as “fair and just.” In any given day, there will always be some people who do not view the system as “fair and just.”
Ax, in this case it was pretty universally known that “cities everywhere would burn” if Chauvin was acquitted. Even people in congress said (and encouraged) that. I think it’s pretty objective to describe this trial was not exactly fair and just. Regardless of the verdict, the threat of the mob absolutely was felt in the courtroom.
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@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
The video I posted is police body cam raw footage. Thus far no one here has commented on it after watching it.
The jury got it right.
I saw the raw footage months ago, which is what I based my opinion on that I only saw evidence supporting a 2nd degree manslaughter charge, not murder. In that view, the jury got it wrong. Everyone has an opinion.
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@89th said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
The video I posted is police body cam raw footage. Thus far no one here has commented on it after watching it.
The jury got it right.
I saw the raw footage months ago, which is what I based my opinion on that I only saw evidence supporting a 2nd degree manslaughter charge, not murder. In that view, the jury got it wrong. Everyone has an opinion.
Typically, second-degree murder is defined as murder that is not premeditated, or murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life.
So what do you disagree with, reckless conduct or lack of concern for human life?
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@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@89th said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
The video I posted is police body cam raw footage. Thus far no one here has commented on it after watching it.
The jury got it right.
I saw the raw footage months ago, which is what I based my opinion on that I only saw evidence supporting a 2nd degree manslaughter charge, not murder. In that view, the jury got it wrong. Everyone has an opinion.
Typically, second-degree murder is defined as murder that is not premeditated, or murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life.
So what do you disagree with, reckless conduct or lack of concern for human life?
That’s not the standard in Minnesota. 2nd degree requires an intent to kill the victim. I don’t know that they proved an intent to kill on Chauvin’s end.
https://statelaws.findlaw.com/minnesota-law/minnesota-second-degree-murder.html
Frankly, the finding of guilt for 3rd Degree Murder was an even worse verdict.
What I don’t get and never have is the multiple charges for the same crime.
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@lufins-dad said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@89th said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
The video I posted is police body cam raw footage. Thus far no one here has commented on it after watching it.
The jury got it right.
I saw the raw footage months ago, which is what I based my opinion on that I only saw evidence supporting a 2nd degree manslaughter charge, not murder. In that view, the jury got it wrong. Everyone has an opinion.
Typically, second-degree murder is defined as murder that is not premeditated, or murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life.
So what do you disagree with, reckless conduct or lack of concern for human life?
That’s not the standard in Minnesota. 2nd degree requires an intent to kill the victim. I don’t know that they proved an intent to kill on Chauvin’s end.
https://statelaws.findlaw.com/minnesota-law/minnesota-second-degree-murder.html
Frankly, the finding of guilt for 3rd Degree Murder was an even worse verdict.
What I don’t get and never have is the multiple charges for the same crime.
He was convicted of second degree unintentional murder. Read the Minnesota definition and I think you may change your mind.
609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or
(2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).
Subd. 2.Unintentional murders. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or
(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders. -
@axtremus said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@jolly said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
At the end of the day, the system has to be vuewed as fair and just...Or we don 't have any Justice at all...
Today, for this case, you do not view it as “fair and just.” Had the case been decided another way, it would just be some other people who would not view it as “fair and just.” In any given day, there will always be some people who do not view the system as “fair and just.”
Dear Ax,
You are so full of shit your eyes are brown.Sincerely, Jolly -
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@89th said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
The video I posted is police body cam raw footage. Thus far no one here has commented on it after watching it.
The jury got it right.
I saw the raw footage months ago, which is what I based my opinion on that I only saw evidence supporting a 2nd degree manslaughter charge, not murder. In that view, the jury got it wrong. Everyone has an opinion.
Typically, second-degree murder is defined as murder that is not premeditated, or murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life.
So what do you disagree with, reckless conduct or lack of concern for human life?
The key for the 2nd degree murder charge is the “while committing assault” requirement, and I simply didn’t see Chauvin’s actions as “assaulting” Floyd. If that was assault, then I dare you to to spend a day as a copy downtown and restrain resisting criminals without “assaulting” them.
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This post is deleted!
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@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@lufins-dad said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@89th said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
The video I posted is police body cam raw footage. Thus far no one here has commented on it after watching it.
The jury got it right.
I saw the raw footage months ago, which is what I based my opinion on that I only saw evidence supporting a 2nd degree manslaughter charge, not murder. In that view, the jury got it wrong. Everyone has an opinion.
Typically, second-degree murder is defined as murder that is not premeditated, or murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life.
So what do you disagree with, reckless conduct or lack of concern for human life?
That’s not the standard in Minnesota. 2nd degree requires an intent to kill the victim. I don’t know that they proved an intent to kill on Chauvin’s end.
https://statelaws.findlaw.com/minnesota-law/minnesota-second-degree-murder.html
Frankly, the finding of guilt for 3rd Degree Murder was an even worse verdict.
What I don’t get and never have is the multiple charges for the same crime.
He was convicted of second degree unintentional murder. Read the Minnesota definition and I think you may change your mind.
609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or
(2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).
Subd. 2.Unintentional murders. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or
(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.-
Chauvin wasn’t committing another felony.
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There was no Restraining Order on Chauvin.
The only argument that could possibly fit Murder 2 is if you can prove that Chauvin actively wanted to kill Floyd in the heat of the moment.
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@lufins-dad said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
The only argument that could possibly fit Murder 2 is if you can prove that Chauvin actively wanted to kill Floyd in the heat of the moment.
Allegedly they knew each other and had prior altercations. Just putting that out there.
As for me, I'm too tired for objectivity. If I can guess to a certain degree what your opinion about the trial is based on your politics and skin color, I don't care. I'm beyond tired of tribethink and want nothing to do with it. I'll hear from some white, shaved-head, Punisher-worshipping LEO motherfucker in Minnesota who thinks there weren't enough charges brought and that more people need to stand trial. I'll also hear from a black guy with gold teeth and a bit of a record who's concerned over the impossibility of a fair trial and celebrating murder charges in the fucking streets. Other than that I'm not looking for much of a discussion.
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@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
Chauvin has his knee on the neck of a person for four minutes and the guy isn’t moving and is handcuffed.
Exactly. In my mind there's no question that Chauvin was in the wrong.
However, if his actions rise to the standard of "murder," I really don't know.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@george-k said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
Chauvin has his knee on the neck of a person for four minutes and the guy isn’t moving and is handcuffed.
Exactly. In my mind there's no question that Chauvin was in the wrong.
However, if his actions rise to the standard of "murder," I really don't know.
I go back to what Dershowitz said...We have trials to determine whether a person is guilty of a crime. For the system to work, that trial must be as fair and impartial as we can make it.
Chauvin may have been guilty, but his trial was a mockery of justice. That is just wrong.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Loki @Aqua-Letifer I don’t think you guys are quite getting where I am coming from.
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Chauvin needs to go to prison and he needs to go for a very long time. What he did was absolutely abhorrent. I’m a firm believer that there needs to be higher standards for police and when they cross the line there needs to be a higher price.
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In order for Chauvin to go away for a very long time, you need to absolutely make sure that you file the correct charges and that you prosecute the case in a clean and aboveboard manner. You also need to make sure that you absolutely make sure that you respect Chauvin’s rights to a fair and impartial trial.
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Because they did not do so, Chauvin should walk free on his appeal. That pisses me off for multiple reasons.
Because of the way they conducted this trial, there is not a single good outcome left to us. There is no way to point and say “That’s how justice is supposed to work!”
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@lufins-dad said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
I don’t think you guys are quite getting where I am coming from.
My post wasn't a reaction to anything or anyone specifically, it's what I thought before I even read the thread.
I agree with your last comment, though; pretty much how I feel about it.
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I wasn't there and did not really follow the testimony. I'm surprised with the guilty on all three, but, as I have been throughout, content to let it play out in the courts. We're only at the bottom of the 5th inning.
My biggest concern is the jury. Did they feel compelled to deliver the verdicts they did due to public pressure and fear for their families and the consequences for the nation?
