Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment
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@loki said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@copper said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@loki said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
Okay but I will tell you if you can’t convince someone by now
By now?
These vaccines are years ahead of what would be considered a normal life cycle.
Caution at this point may or may not be wise, but it is certainly normal.
https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation
Vaccine development is a long, complex process, often lasting 10-15 years and involving a combination of public and private involvement.
First Steps: Laboratory and Animal StudiesExploratory Stage
This stage involves basic laboratory research and often lasts 2-4 years.
The pre-clinical stages often lasts 1-2 years
So I would say to that I would like to hear hesitancy from epidemiologists, scientists, education leaders and business folks.
Look at the demographics of those for and those against.
I believe they all agree this is uncharted territory.
Caution has deliberately been abandoned, this was well publicized.
There is no real basis for acting smug about your faith in the vaccine.@copper said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@loki said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@copper said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@loki said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
Okay but I will tell you if you can’t convince someone by now
By now?
These vaccines are years ahead of what would be considered a normal life cycle.
Caution at this point may or may not be wise, but it is certainly normal.
https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation
Vaccine development is a long, complex process, often lasting 10-15 years and involving a combination of public and private involvement.
First Steps: Laboratory and Animal StudiesExploratory Stage
This stage involves basic laboratory research and often lasts 2-4 years.
The pre-clinical stages often lasts 1-2 years
So I would say to that I would like to hear hesitancy from epidemiologists, scientists, education leaders and business folks.
Look at the demographics of those for and those against.
I believe they all agree this is uncharted territory.
Caution has deliberately been abandoned, this was well publicized.
There is no real basis for acting smug about your faith in the vaccine.550,000 deaths in the US alone and a vaccine platform that has actually been in the works for decades. I’m not being smug I think I can mathematically prove what is more likely to kill you.
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The longer it takes to vaccinate everyone the easier it is mutant strains to develop which will render the current vaccines less effective. This is a race folks and as it is booster shots are already almost a foregone conclusion.
So there is more joy to be had with those that won’t take it.
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@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@aqua-letifer said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
No, you're not a virologist. You're not in my league. And I'm not in George's or Bach's. And they aren't in a virologist's league and those guys may not have a good handle on primary research. And even the best and brightest are still guessing a good bit.
So, at the end of the day, you are left with an opinion. Better informed than some, but an opinion, nonetheless.
Therefore, what constitutes an idiot? Anybody who doesn't agree with you?
Jon doesn't agree with me on a range of issues. Hmmm...I've always suspected Jon was an idiot. Or maybe it's the other way around...Hmmm...Being able to create a vaccine with your own two hands is different from understanding how a vaccine is created. I consider my reading comprehension skills sufficient enough to understand scientific information. For one, because I worked at it. For two, because it's been my job on many occasions for the past two decades. So when scientists who worked on the vaccines explain how the vaccines work, I consider that information more credible than political preferences.
Reading and critical thinking are fundamental.
What is your BS degree in? Advanced?
If you really want to play that game, where did you say you get your news again?
@aqua-letifer said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@aqua-letifer said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
No, you're not a virologist. You're not in my league. And I'm not in George's or Bach's. And they aren't in a virologist's league and those guys may not have a good handle on primary research. And even the best and brightest are still guessing a good bit.
So, at the end of the day, you are left with an opinion. Better informed than some, but an opinion, nonetheless.
Therefore, what constitutes an idiot? Anybody who doesn't agree with you?
Jon doesn't agree with me on a range of issues. Hmmm...I've always suspected Jon was an idiot. Or maybe it's the other way around...Hmmm...Being able to create a vaccine with your own two hands is different from understanding how a vaccine is created. I consider my reading comprehension skills sufficient enough to understand scientific information. For one, because I worked at it. For two, because it's been my job on many occasions for the past two decades. So when scientists who worked on the vaccines explain how the vaccines work, I consider that information more credible than political preferences.
Reading and critical thinking are fundamental.
What is your BS degree in? Advanced?
If you really want to play that game, where did you say you get your news again?
BS - major in biology, medical technology, minor in chemistry (I need one more course for a triple major). I have forgotten more stuff than I know, at this point.
You're damn right I'll play this game with some two-bit, self taught expert, that couldn't function for thirty minutes in a medical lab, research lab or in an acute healthcare setting.
Now, go run your damn head and tell me just how damn good you are...While I laugh my ass off...
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@aqua-letifer said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@aqua-letifer said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
No, you're not a virologist. You're not in my league. And I'm not in George's or Bach's. And they aren't in a virologist's league and those guys may not have a good handle on primary research. And even the best and brightest are still guessing a good bit.
So, at the end of the day, you are left with an opinion. Better informed than some, but an opinion, nonetheless.
Therefore, what constitutes an idiot? Anybody who doesn't agree with you?
Jon doesn't agree with me on a range of issues. Hmmm...I've always suspected Jon was an idiot. Or maybe it's the other way around...Hmmm...Being able to create a vaccine with your own two hands is different from understanding how a vaccine is created. I consider my reading comprehension skills sufficient enough to understand scientific information. For one, because I worked at it. For two, because it's been my job on many occasions for the past two decades. So when scientists who worked on the vaccines explain how the vaccines work, I consider that information more credible than political preferences.
Reading and critical thinking are fundamental.
What is your BS degree in? Advanced?
If you really want to play that game, where did you say you get your news again?
BS - major in biology, medical technology, minor in chemistry (I need one more course for a triple major). I have forgotten more stuff than I know, at this point.
You're damn right I'll play this game with some two-bit, self taught expert, that couldn't function for thirty minutes in a medical lab, research lab or in an acute healthcare setting.
Now, go run your damn head and tell me just how damn good you are...While I laugh my ass off...
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
You're damn right I'll play this game with some two-bit, self taught expert, that couldn't function for thirty minutes in a medical lab, research lab or in an acute healthcare setting.
Now, go run your damn head and tell me just how damn good you are...While I laugh my ass off...That sounds like a lot of education and training. At which point did you learn that vaccine efficacy was the same as political opinions? Do they cover that in bio?
Please love yourself.
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@copper said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@loki said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@copper said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@loki said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
Okay but I will tell you if you can’t convince someone by now
By now?
These vaccines are years ahead of what would be considered a normal life cycle.
Caution at this point may or may not be wise, but it is certainly normal.
https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation
Vaccine development is a long, complex process, often lasting 10-15 years and involving a combination of public and private involvement.
First Steps: Laboratory and Animal StudiesExploratory Stage
This stage involves basic laboratory research and often lasts 2-4 years.
The pre-clinical stages often lasts 1-2 years
So I would say to that I would like to hear hesitancy from epidemiologists, scientists, education leaders and business folks.
Look at the demographics of those for and those against.
I believe they all agree this is uncharted territory.
Caution has deliberately been abandoned, this was well publicized.
There is no real basis for acting smug about your faith in the vaccine.550,000 deaths in the US alone and a vaccine platform that has actually been in the works for decades. I’m not being smug I think I can mathematically prove what is more likely to kill you.
@loki said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@copper said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@loki said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@copper said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@loki said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
Okay but I will tell you if you can’t convince someone by now
By now?
These vaccines are years ahead of what would be considered a normal life cycle.
Caution at this point may or may not be wise, but it is certainly normal.
https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation
Vaccine development is a long, complex process, often lasting 10-15 years and involving a combination of public and private involvement.
First Steps: Laboratory and Animal StudiesExploratory Stage
This stage involves basic laboratory research and often lasts 2-4 years.
The pre-clinical stages often lasts 1-2 years
So I would say to that I would like to hear hesitancy from epidemiologists, scientists, education leaders and business folks.
Look at the demographics of those for and those against.
I believe they all agree this is uncharted territory.
Caution has deliberately been abandoned, this was well publicized.
There is no real basis for acting smug about your faith in the vaccine.550,000 deaths in the US alone and a vaccine platform that has actually been in the works for decades. I’m not being smug I think I can mathematically prove what is more likely to kill you.
Please pass your calculations along to the experts who normally take years to approve a new vaccine. I'm sure you could save lives.
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@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
You're damn right I'll play this game with some two-bit, self taught expert, that couldn't function for thirty minutes in a medical lab, research lab or in an acute healthcare setting.
Now, go run your damn head and tell me just how damn good you are...While I laugh my ass off...That sounds like a lot of education and training. At which point did you learn that vaccine efficacy was the same as political opinions? Do they cover that in bio?
@aqua-letifer said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
You're damn right I'll play this game with some two-bit, self taught expert, that couldn't function for thirty minutes in a medical lab, research lab or in an acute healthcare setting.
Now, go run your damn head and tell me just how damn good you are...While I laugh my ass off...That sounds like a lot of education and training. At which point did you learn that vaccine efficacy was the same as political opinions? Do they cover that in bio?
C'mon, motorscooter...I want your bonafides. I want your certifications. I want to know just what pile of books you are standing on that makes you an expert.
I doubt you've got anything that qualifies you as such. All you have is a self-informed opinion and a simmering hate against people who will not conform to your idea of vaccination.
I don't consider myself that smart. I consider that other people do have different viewpoints on vaccination, the spread of COVID and ramifications of lockdowns vs. open societies.
I guess I'm dumb enough that I don't consider everybody else not breathing in the same stratosphere as me (I, for you fucking English majors) an idiot.
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@aqua-letifer said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
You're damn right I'll play this game with some two-bit, self taught expert, that couldn't function for thirty minutes in a medical lab, research lab or in an acute healthcare setting.
Now, go run your damn head and tell me just how damn good you are...While I laugh my ass off...That sounds like a lot of education and training. At which point did you learn that vaccine efficacy was the same as political opinions? Do they cover that in bio?
C'mon, motorscooter...I want your bonafides. I want your certifications. I want to know just what pile of books you are standing on that makes you an expert.
I doubt you've got anything that qualifies you as such. All you have is a self-informed opinion and a simmering hate against people who will not conform to your idea of vaccination.
I don't consider myself that smart. I consider that other people do have different viewpoints on vaccination, the spread of COVID and ramifications of lockdowns vs. open societies.
I guess I'm dumb enough that I don't consider everybody else not breathing in the same stratosphere as me (I, for you fucking English majors) an idiot.
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
C'mon, motorscooter...I want your bonafides. I want your certifications. I want to know just what pile of books you are standing on that makes you an expert.
That's a bizarre proposition. If I'm getting this right, basically you seem to want me to tell you what my education and professional work has been so that you can make fun of it. I think I'll pass. Without my answering, you've already made up your mind that I don't know what I'm talking about, so I don't see the point. (Which, you gotta admire the irony, considering this is in part a discussion about critical thinking.)
Either what I'm saying makes sense or not on the merits of the argument, not what degree I have or what my background is. If I need to pass an appeal to authority fallacy in order to discuss this with you, I'll just leave you to calling me stupid.
Please love yourself.
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@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
C'mon, motorscooter...I want your bonafides. I want your certifications. I want to know just what pile of books you are standing on that makes you an expert.
That's a bizarre proposition. If I'm getting this right, basically you seem to want me to tell you what my education and professional work has been so that you can make fun of it. I think I'll pass. Without my answering, you've already made up your mind that I don't know what I'm talking about, so I don't see the point. (Which, you gotta admire the irony, considering this is in part a discussion about critical thinking.)
Either what I'm saying makes sense or not on the merits of the argument, not what degree I have or what my background is. If I need to pass an appeal to authority fallacy in order to discuss this with you, I'll just leave you to calling me stupid.
@aqua-letifer said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
C'mon, motorscooter...I want your bonafides. I want your certifications. I want to know just what pile of books you are standing on that makes you an expert.
That's a bizarre proposition. If I'm getting this right, basically you seem to want me to tell you what my education and professional work has been so that you can make fun of it. I think I'll pass. Without my answering, you've already made up your mind that I don't know what I'm talking about, so I don't see the point. (Which, you gotta admire the irony, considering this is in part a discussion about critical thinking.)
Either what I'm saying makes sense or not on the merits of the argument, not what degree I have or what my background is. If I need to pass an appeal to authority fallacy in order to discuss this with you, I'll just leave you to calling me stupid.
No, I don't want to make fun of it. I'm going to cut it to pieces with a chainsaw, douse it with gasoline and set it ablaze, while dancing around the fire.
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@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
C'mon, motorscooter...I want your bonafides. I want your certifications. I want to know just what pile of books you are standing on that makes you an expert.
That's a bizarre proposition. If I'm getting this right, basically you seem to want me to tell you what my education and professional work has been so that you can make fun of it. I think I'll pass. Without my answering, you've already made up your mind that I don't know what I'm talking about, so I don't see the point. (Which, you gotta admire the irony, considering this is in part a discussion about critical thinking.)
Either what I'm saying makes sense or not on the merits of the argument, not what degree I have or what my background is. If I need to pass an appeal to authority fallacy in order to discuss this with you, I'll just leave you to calling me stupid.
@aqua-letifer said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
C'mon, motorscooter...I want your bonafides. I want your certifications. I want to know just what pile of books you are standing on that makes you an expert.
That's a bizarre proposition. If I'm getting this right, basically you seem to want me to tell you what my education and professional work has been so that you can make fun of it. I think I'll pass. Without my answering, you've already made up your mind that I don't know what I'm talking about, so I don't see the point. (Which, you gotta admire the irony, considering this is in part a discussion about critical thinking.)
Either what I'm saying makes sense or not on the merits of the argument, not what degree I have or what my background is. If I need to pass an appeal to authority fallacy in order to discuss this with you, I'll just leave you to calling me stupid.
Now, that we've gotten your attention...Ever stop to consider that people who do not agree with you, some of them with educations and life experiences just as rich, may not be the idiots you think they are?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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I've seen quite a few people saying that anybody who takes the vaccine is an idiot or hopelessly gullible individual who won't 'open their eyes to the obvious'. Typically, they're not very sophisticated from a technical perspective. That doesn't mean they're idiots, of course, but they're not very sophisticated from a technical perspective. I wouldn't let them tinker with my computer Windows installation, so I'm not sure why I'd listen to them regarding epidemiology.
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As an aside about education, I have a relative with a PhD who doesn't believe the dinosaurs existed and were put there to test our faith.
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@aqua-letifer said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
C'mon, motorscooter...I want your bonafides. I want your certifications. I want to know just what pile of books you are standing on that makes you an expert.
That's a bizarre proposition. If I'm getting this right, basically you seem to want me to tell you what my education and professional work has been so that you can make fun of it. I think I'll pass. Without my answering, you've already made up your mind that I don't know what I'm talking about, so I don't see the point. (Which, you gotta admire the irony, considering this is in part a discussion about critical thinking.)
Either what I'm saying makes sense or not on the merits of the argument, not what degree I have or what my background is. If I need to pass an appeal to authority fallacy in order to discuss this with you, I'll just leave you to calling me stupid.
Now, that we've gotten your attention...Ever stop to consider that people who do not agree with you, some of them with educations and life experiences just as rich, may not be the idiots you think they are?
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
Now, that we've gotten your attention...Ever stop to consider that people who do not agree with you, some of them with educations and life experiences just as rich, may not be the idiots you think they are?
Two things:
I don't know if you buy into Meyers-Briggs at all, but I've always been typed the same, from when I was 14 to now; I'm an INTP. Those fuckers think nearly everyone they meet is stupid. All the time, everywhere. It's almost a default position. Believe it or not I've gotten a lot better with it over time.
As for trying to understand others from different walks of life, don't go on thinking that just because I can be not only judgmental but flippant about it, that I'm sitting here thinking I have shit all figured out and that I think I know enough about other people. Day to day, I probably spend many more hours on this than you. No I'm not going to get into that, but if you were to show me your "bona fides" for that shit it'll probably be my turn to laugh.
I'm getting better with it, but I'm also not in a place where I can respect an opinion that COVID vaccines are unnecessary or generally dangerous. I'm still going to call that absolutely fucking ridiculous. Maybe I'll be more understanding later on, who knows.
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@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
Now, that we've gotten your attention...Ever stop to consider that people who do not agree with you, some of them with educations and life experiences just as rich, may not be the idiots you think they are?
Two things:
I don't know if you buy into Meyers-Briggs at all, but I've always been typed the same, from when I was 14 to now; I'm an INTP. Those fuckers think nearly everyone they meet is stupid. All the time, everywhere. It's almost a default position. Believe it or not I've gotten a lot better with it over time.
As for trying to understand others from different walks of life, don't go on thinking that just because I can be not only judgmental but flippant about it, that I'm sitting here thinking I have shit all figured out and that I think I know enough about other people. Day to day, I probably spend many more hours on this than you. No I'm not going to get into that, but if you were to show me your "bona fides" for that shit it'll probably be my turn to laugh.
I'm getting better with it, but I'm also not in a place where I can respect an opinion that COVID vaccines are unnecessary or generally dangerous. I'm still going to call that absolutely fucking ridiculous. Maybe I'll be more understanding later on, who knows.
@aqua-letifer said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
Now, that we've gotten your attention...Ever stop to consider that people who do not agree with you, some of them with educations and life experiences just as rich, may not be the idiots you think they are?
Two things:
I don't know if you buy into Meyers-Briggs at all, but I've always been typed the same, from when I was 14 to now; I'm an INTP. Those fuckers think nearly everyone they meet is stupid. All the time, everywhere. It's almost a default position. Believe it or not I've gotten a lot better with it over time.
As for trying to understand others from different walks of life, don't go on thinking that just because I can be not only judgmental but flippant about it, that I'm sitting here thinking I have shit all figured out and that I think I know enough about other people. Day to day, I probably spend many more hours on this than you. No I'm not going to get into that, but if you were to show me your "bona fides" for that shit it'll probably be my turn to laugh.
I'm getting better with it, but I'm also not in a place where I can respect an opinion that COVID vaccines are unnecessary or generally dangerous. I'm still going to call that absolutely fucking ridiculous. Maybe I'll be more understanding later on, who knows.
ENTJ, sometimes ESTJ
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On herd immunity - worth the read
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@mik said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
On herd immunity - worth the read
It's not bad. What they overlook is how many people who say they will not be vaccinated, will actually have had the disease.
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@mik said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
On herd immunity - worth the read
It's not bad. What they overlook is how many people who say they will not be vaccinated, will actually have had the disease.
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@mik said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
On herd immunity - worth the read
It's not bad. What they overlook is how many people who say they will not be vaccinated, will actually have had the disease.
Good luck with that. It’s already been proven that the vaccine gives better protection to those who already had covid. And with variants becoming dominant that arrogance is going to get a few. Looking forward to the news stories in a few months about the double whammy.
Oh and it’s likely that the vaccine helps with long covid.
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@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@mik said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
On herd immunity - worth the read
It's not bad. What they overlook is how many people who say they will not be vaccinated, will actually have had the disease.
Good luck with that. It’s already been proven that the vaccine gives better protection to those who already had covid. And with variants becoming dominant that arrogance is going to get a few. Looking forward to the news stories in a few months about the double whammy.
Oh and it’s likely that the vaccine helps with long covid.
@loki said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@jolly said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
@mik said in Another reason to vaccinate: you pay for treatment:
On herd immunity - worth the read
It's not bad. What they overlook is how many people who say they will not be vaccinated, will actually have had the disease.
Good luck with that. It’s already been proven that the vaccine gives better protection to those who already had covid. And with variants becoming dominant that arrogance is going to get a few. Looking forward to the news stories in a few months about the double whammy.
Oh and it’s likely that the vaccine helps with long covid.
No, what has been proven are the antibody levels circulating in the blood.
Does that equate to better immunity than having the disease? It certainly dies not take into account any T-cell memory.
I don't think anybody has a definitive answer...
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Even in sin city you need to be clean!
Actually I am no longer concerned what people think, I can tell the train is leaving the station.
Oh, and privacy concerns, the anti Vaxers have given their entire brain dump to FB. LOL
