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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. If Remdesivir Really Fails...

If Remdesivir Really Fails...

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  • G George K
    4 May 2020, 16:56

    @LuFins-Dad said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

    @George-K I wasn’t supposed to drink today. There goes that plan.

    Here's another reason:

    As President Trump presses for states to reopen their economies, his administration is privately projecting a steady rise in the number of cases and deaths from the coronavirus over the next several weeks, reaching about 3,000 daily deaths on June 1, according to an internal document obtained by The New York Times, nearly double from the current level of about 1,750.
    The projections, based on modeling by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and pulled together in chart form by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, forecast about 200,000 new cases each day by the end of the month, up from about 25,000 cases now.

    The numbers underscore a sobering reality: While the United States has been hunkered down for the past seven weeks, not much has changed. And the reopening to the economy will make matters worse.

    “There remains a large number of counties whose burden continues to grow,” the C.D.C. warned.

    The projections confirm the primary fear of public health experts: that a reopening of the economy will put the nation right back where it was in mid-March, when cases were rising so rapidly in some parts of the country that patients were dying on gurneys in hospital hallways as the health care system grew overloaded.

    “While mitigation didn’t fail, I think it’s fair to say that it didn’t work as well as we expected,” Scott Gottlieb, Mr. Trump’s former commissioner of food and drugs, said Sunday on the CBS program Face the Nation. “We expected that we would start seeing more significant declines in new cases and deaths around the nation at this point. And we’re just not seeing that.”

    J Online
    J Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on 4 May 2020, 18:26 last edited by
    #22

    @George-K said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

    “While mitigation didn’t fail, I think it’s fair to say that it didn’t work as well as we expected,” Scott Gottlieb, Mr. Trump’s former commissioner of food and drugs, said Sunday on the CBS program Face the Nation. “We expected that we would start seeing more significant declines in new cases and deaths around the nation at this point. And we’re just not seeing that.”

    R never dropped below one. At least reliably and sustainably.

    Only non-witches get due process.

    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
    1 Reply Last reply
    • M Away
      M Away
      Mik
      wrote on 4 May 2020, 19:17 last edited by
      #23

      Dewy and I don't agree on much anymore, but he posted this that I have shared freely.

      alt text

      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

      1 Reply Last reply
      • H Online
        H Online
        Horace
        wrote on 4 May 2020, 19:37 last edited by
        #24

        I would gladly live the rest of my life without seeing lazy sanctimonious potshots like those dominate our social conversations about everything.

        Education is extremely important.

        A 1 Reply Last reply 4 May 2020, 21:34
        • M Away
          M Away
          Mik
          wrote on 4 May 2020, 20:04 last edited by
          #25

          I'm sure there are many things about other folks you could gladly live without. So say we all.

          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

          1 Reply Last reply
          • H Horace
            4 May 2020, 19:37

            I would gladly live the rest of my life without seeing lazy sanctimonious potshots like those dominate our social conversations about everything.

            A Offline
            A Offline
            Aqua Letifer
            wrote on 4 May 2020, 21:34 last edited by
            #26

            @Horace said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

            I would gladly live the rest of my life without seeing lazy sanctimonious potshots like those dominate our social conversations about everything.

            But only if you disagree with them I presume.

            Everyone's got strong opinions about this. I don't think it's especially egregious to moralize while the liberty whiners are doing exactly the same.

            Please love yourself.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • C Offline
              C Offline
              Copper
              wrote on 4 May 2020, 22:49 last edited by
              #27

              Sanctimonious potshots make policy

              1 Reply Last reply
              • G George K
                26 Apr 2020, 12:47

                @jon-nyc said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                Convalescent plasma?

                I've read that the immunity it affords is short-term, though it might be helpful as a therapy.

                One thing that I find encouraging is we've never had so many scientists/companies etc working on one very specific condition.

                Indeed. It's amazing to see this.

                J Online
                J Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on 23 Aug 2020, 23:17 last edited by
                #28

                @George-K said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                @jon-nyc said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                Convalescent plasma?

                I've read that the immunity it affords is short-term, though it might be helpful as a therapy.

                One thing that I find encouraging is we've never had so many scientists/companies etc working on one very specific condition.

                Indeed. It's amazing to see this.

                FDA approved convalescent plasma today. Honestly I thought it already had emergency approval but cool all the same.

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply 24 Aug 2020, 04:26
                • J jon-nyc
                  23 Aug 2020, 23:17

                  @George-K said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                  @jon-nyc said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                  Convalescent plasma?

                  I've read that the immunity it affords is short-term, though it might be helpful as a therapy.

                  One thing that I find encouraging is we've never had so many scientists/companies etc working on one very specific condition.

                  Indeed. It's amazing to see this.

                  FDA approved convalescent plasma today. Honestly I thought it already had emergency approval but cool all the same.

                  JollyJ Offline
                  JollyJ Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on 24 Aug 2020, 04:26 last edited by Jolly
                  #29

                  @jon-nyc said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                  @George-K said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                  @jon-nyc said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                  Convalescent plasma?

                  I've read that the immunity it affords is short-term, though it might be helpful as a therapy.

                  One thing that I find encouraging is we've never had so many scientists/companies etc working on one very specific condition.

                  Indeed. It's amazing to see this.

                  FDA approved convalescent plasma today. Honestly I thought it already had emergency approval but cool all the same.

                  Since Trump was the one who broke the log jam, I'm sure you disapprove.

                  They've been using convalescent plasma down here for awhile, FDA be damned. Plaquenil cocktail, too. Doesn't always work, but sometimes the plasma therapy can be jaw dropping.

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  KincaidK 1 Reply Last reply 26 Aug 2020, 00:52
                  • G Offline
                    G Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on 25 Aug 2020, 23:05 last edited by
                    #30

                    https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/08/24/remdesivir-disappoints-again-14982

                    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

                    An 11-day randomized Phase 3 trial of almost 600 patients, all with moderate COVID, was conducted to compare the clinical status (2) of three groups (~200 patients each) on day 11:

                    patients who received remdesivir for 5 days
                    patients who received remdesivir for 10 days
                    patients who received standard care
                    The findings were a bit strange. On day 11, patients who had received five days of remdesivir showed a statically significant improvement compared to those who received standard care but not a clinically significant difference. And the patients who received a 10-day course (3) of the drug experienced no difference, either statistically or clinically.

                    The conclusion, as stated by the authors, is rather obvious:

                    Among patients with moderate COVID-19, those randomized to a 10-day course of remdesivir did not have a statistically significant difference in clinical status compared with standard care at 11 days after initiation of treatment. Patients randomized to a 5-day course of remdesivir had a statistically significant difference in clinical status compared with standard care, but the difference was of uncertain clinical importance.

                    D. Brainard, MD, et.al., JAMA. Published online August 21, 2020. doi:10.1001/jama.2020.16349

                    Two clinical trials involving more than 1,600 patients have shown effects ranging from none to modest. It is difficult to imagine that the hopes of remdesivir being a silver bullet to conquer COVID will ever be realized, at least not as an IV treatment for hospitalized patients. But it is still possible that the drug hasn't been given a fair shake. As a direct-acting antiviral, early administration is important and no patients in either of these trials were given the drug until they were already hospitalized and quite ill. It is possible (perhaps even likely) that no antiviral drug, no matter how potent, will be able to alter the course of COVID when given days/weeks after the start of the infection. Perhaps the best shot for remdesivir would be very early administration, perhaps as in inhaled powder after a rapid diagnostic saliva test. (Gilead is working on a dry powder formulation.)

                    Or, more likely, as is the case in drug discovery, the first drug to treat a condition or infection is rarely the best. The first HIV/AIDS drug, AZT, did little or nothing to prolong the lives of AIDS patients after one year of therapy. The first direct-acting hepatitis C drugs, boceprevir and telaprevir (2011) were relegated to the antiviral scrap heap within a couple of years as they were replaced by the much superior Sovaldi, which itself has been replaced by more potent drug combinations. Such is the nature of drug discovery,

                    If a game-changing COVID antiviral drug is ever found, it is quite possible that it doesn't exist yet.

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • JollyJ Jolly
                      24 Aug 2020, 04:26

                      @jon-nyc said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                      @George-K said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                      @jon-nyc said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                      Convalescent plasma?

                      I've read that the immunity it affords is short-term, though it might be helpful as a therapy.

                      One thing that I find encouraging is we've never had so many scientists/companies etc working on one very specific condition.

                      Indeed. It's amazing to see this.

                      FDA approved convalescent plasma today. Honestly I thought it already had emergency approval but cool all the same.

                      Since Trump was the one who broke the log jam, I'm sure you disapprove.

                      They've been using convalescent plasma down here for awhile, FDA be damned. Plaquenil cocktail, too. Doesn't always work, but sometimes the plasma therapy can be jaw dropping.

                      KincaidK Offline
                      KincaidK Offline
                      Kincaid
                      wrote on 26 Aug 2020, 00:52 last edited by Kincaid
                      #31

                      @Jolly said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                      @jon-nyc said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                      @George-K said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                      @jon-nyc said in If Remdesivir Really Fails...:

                      Convalescent plasma?

                      I've read that the immunity it affords is short-term, though it might be helpful as a therapy.

                      One thing that I find encouraging is we've never had so many scientists/companies etc working on one very specific condition.

                      Indeed. It's amazing to see this.

                      FDA approved convalescent plasma today. Honestly I thought it already had emergency approval but cool all the same.

                      Since Trump was the one who broke the log jam, I'm sure you disapprove.

                      They've been using convalescent plasma down here for awhile, FDA be damned. Plaquenil cocktail, too. Doesn't always work, but sometimes the plasma therapy can be jaw dropping.

                      Saw a news report (anti-Trump of course) saying that convalescent plasma hasn't been thoroughly tested yet and it could be "dangerous".

                      What about regular plasma given to people all the time. Is that somehow dangerous? It's just plasma for crying out loud. Like Hydroxychloriquine used safely for years under the care of a physician. Now suddenly it is a dangerous, unpredictable drug.

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