The Big Lie
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wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 17:55 last edited by
I don’t know if anyone was arrested in the Capitol building at all.
There were gun arrests on the Capitol grounds.
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I don’t know if anyone was arrested in the Capitol building at all.
There were gun arrests on the Capitol grounds.
wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 17:58 last edited by@jon-nyc said in The Big Lie:
I don’t know if anyone was arrested in the Capitol building at all.
There were gun arrests on the Capitol grounds.
Then, that is on the grounds, not in the Capitol.
Note, the arrests were for possession. That's a big difference, legally speaking.
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wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 17:59 last edited by
Were there any arrests inside the Capitol building at all?
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wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 18:00 last edited by
She wouldn't be trying to deflect, by any chance?
We've been told over and over that Trump's supporters are all peaceful, unlike the violent people on the left, who incidentally, I despise. It turns out that's not true, so we argue about whether they were actually carrying guns in the actual building?
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wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 18:08 last edited by Renauda
I wonder what all those people were doing there on that day? It is said that some were exercising their constitutional rights, others insist they were taking selfies, many say they were rioting with no clear goal in mind, still others maintain they were attempting to capture elected officials and do untold things to them.
Fine.
The fact remains however some folks were determined to cause big trouble and went there well prepared to cause big trouble. And they did cause big trouble.
I still believe though that the biggest lie is Trump's contention that the election was stolen from him and that are 70 odd million muggins out there who actually believe it.
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She wouldn't be trying to deflect, by any chance?
We've been told over and over that Trump's supporters are all peaceful, unlike the violent people on the left, who incidentally, I despise. It turns out that's not true, so we argue about whether they were actually carrying guns in the actual building?
wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 18:08 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
She wouldn't be trying to deflect, by any chance?
We've been told over and over that Trump's supporters are all peaceful, unlike the violent people on the left, who incidentally, I despise. It turns out that's not true, so we argue about whether they were actually carrying guns in the actual building?
No, get your head out of your ass and listen...
We gave been told time and time again, this was an armed insurrection. I - and most other people - consider armed to mean firearms. Not something like a flagpole or an officer's riot shield that some protester has taken. I wouldn't consider throwing rocks or bricks "armed".
Peaceful, this is not. But this is a typical scene in CHAS:
Can you see the difference?
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wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 18:17 last edited by
Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
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Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 18:18 last edited by@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
Some of us believe one is a bigger problem than the other. That does not preclude finding both to be wrong.
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@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
Some of us believe one is a bigger problem than the other. That does not preclude finding both to be wrong.
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@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 18:22 last edited by@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
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Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 18:29 last edited by Doctor Phibes@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
A second difference is that the violent fanaticism on the left, which in many cases is actually worse than that on the right, was not egged on by a former or current President of the United States.
The fact that people cannot bring themselves to condemn this individual for his cynical exploitation of the gullible, and his frankly childish refusal to accept the inevitable, is pretty close to being tacit approval of the violence that took place in the Capitol.
To call these people 'conservatives' is an insult to a great political tradition.
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@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
A second difference is that the violent fanaticism on the left, which in many cases is actually worse than that on the right, was not egged on by a former or current President of the United States.
The fact that people cannot bring themselves to condemn this individual for his cynical exploitation of the gullible, and his frankly childish refusal to accept the inevitable, is pretty close to being tacit approval of the violence that took place in the Capitol.
To call these people 'conservatives' is an insult to a great political tradition.
wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 18:34 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
A second difference is that the violent fanaticism on the left, which in many cases is actually worse than that on the right, was not egged on by a former or current President of the United States.
The fact that people cannot bring themselves to condemn this individual is pretty close to being tacit approval of the violence that took place in the Capitol.
To call these people 'conservatives' is an insult to a great political tradition.
Wokeism and anti-racism have absolutely been condoned by current and former presidents. I was particularly dismayed when GWB wrote an essay on systemic racism in the wake of George Floyd. It goes without saying that the Obamas, especially Michelle, are completely on board with the systemic racism narrative.
As for Trump, I think he went too hard on the election theft thing, in service of his inability to admit to losing. Some doofi took that as permission to enter the Capitol, through unguarded, unlocked doors. Trump immediately told them to go home, and immediately made clear that the rule of law must exist. As it does not, to this day, in Portland.
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@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
A second difference is that the violent fanaticism on the left, which in many cases is actually worse than that on the right, was not egged on by a former or current President of the United States.
The fact that people cannot bring themselves to condemn this individual is pretty close to being tacit approval of the violence that took place in the Capitol.
To call these people 'conservatives' is an insult to a great political tradition.
Wokeism and anti-racism have absolutely been condoned by current and former presidents. I was particularly dismayed when GWB wrote an essay on systemic racism in the wake of George Floyd. It goes without saying that the Obamas, especially Michelle, are completely on board with the systemic racism narrative.
As for Trump, I think he went too hard on the election theft thing, in service of his inability to admit to losing. Some doofi took that as permission to enter the Capitol, through unguarded, unlocked doors. Trump immediately told them to go home, and immediately made clear that the rule of law must exist. As it does not, to this day, in Portland.
wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 18:39 last edited by Doctor Phibes@horace said in The Big Lie:
@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
A second difference is that the violent fanaticism on the left, which in many cases is actually worse than that on the right, was not egged on by a former or current President of the United States.
The fact that people cannot bring themselves to condemn this individual is pretty close to being tacit approval of the violence that took place in the Capitol.
To call these people 'conservatives' is an insult to a great political tradition.
Wokeism and anti-racism have absolutely been condoned by current and former presidents. I was particularly dismayed when GWB wrote an essay on systemic racism in the wake of George Floyd. It goes without saying that the Obamas, especially Michelle, are completely on board with the systemic racism narrative.
As for Trump, I think he went too hard on the election theft thing, in service of his inability to admit to losing. Some doofi took that as permission to enter the Capitol, through unguarded, unlocked doors. Trump immediately told them to go home, and immediately made clear that the rule of law must exist. As it does not, to this day, in Portland.
He didn't tell them immediately. He also told them that he loved them. He said that Mike Pence was a coward, and has repeatedly personally attacked numbers of people who refused to attempt to subvert the US Constitution on his behalf.
If you can't see the difference between supporting the idea of systemic racism as being a problem and encouraging the mob, then there's not much point discussing it.
I support Irish independence, but I sure as hell don't condone the Provisional IRA, or make excuses for their murderous barbarism.
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@horace said in The Big Lie:
@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
A second difference is that the violent fanaticism on the left, which in many cases is actually worse than that on the right, was not egged on by a former or current President of the United States.
The fact that people cannot bring themselves to condemn this individual is pretty close to being tacit approval of the violence that took place in the Capitol.
To call these people 'conservatives' is an insult to a great political tradition.
Wokeism and anti-racism have absolutely been condoned by current and former presidents. I was particularly dismayed when GWB wrote an essay on systemic racism in the wake of George Floyd. It goes without saying that the Obamas, especially Michelle, are completely on board with the systemic racism narrative.
As for Trump, I think he went too hard on the election theft thing, in service of his inability to admit to losing. Some doofi took that as permission to enter the Capitol, through unguarded, unlocked doors. Trump immediately told them to go home, and immediately made clear that the rule of law must exist. As it does not, to this day, in Portland.
He didn't tell them immediately. He also told them that he loved them. He said that Mike Pence was a coward, and has repeatedly personally attacked numbers of people who refused to attempt to subvert the US Constitution on his behalf.
If you can't see the difference between supporting the idea of systemic racism as being a problem and encouraging the mob, then there's not much point discussing it.
I support Irish independence, but I sure as hell don't condone the Provisional IRA, or make excuses for their murderous barbarism.
wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 18:43 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@doctor-phibes said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
Don't be so obtuse, Jolly. Phibes knows the difference and has unequivocally stated that he is repulsed by the violent fanaticism on both left and right.
A second difference is that the violent fanaticism on the left, which in many cases is actually worse than that on the right, was not egged on by a former or current President of the United States.
The fact that people cannot bring themselves to condemn this individual is pretty close to being tacit approval of the violence that took place in the Capitol.
To call these people 'conservatives' is an insult to a great political tradition.
Wokeism and anti-racism have absolutely been condoned by current and former presidents. I was particularly dismayed when GWB wrote an essay on systemic racism in the wake of George Floyd. It goes without saying that the Obamas, especially Michelle, are completely on board with the systemic racism narrative.
As for Trump, I think he went too hard on the election theft thing, in service of his inability to admit to losing. Some doofi took that as permission to enter the Capitol, through unguarded, unlocked doors. Trump immediately told them to go home, and immediately made clear that the rule of law must exist. As it does not, to this day, in Portland.
He didn't tell them immediately. He also told them that he loved them. He said that Mike Pence was a coward, and has repeatedly personally attacked numbers of people who refused to attempt to subvert the US Constitution on his behalf.
If you can't see the difference between supporting the idea of systemic racism as being a problem and encouraging the mob, then there's not much point discussing it.
I support Irish independence, but I sure as hell don't condone the Provisional IRA, or make excuses for their murderous barbarism.
Trump is an asshole, and he shouldn't have called Pence a coward. I understand he told the whole crowd he loved them, in the same speech where he specifically condemned any lawlessness. If that speech wasn't immediate, it was close to. I don't believe Trump ever saw a positive side to a Capitol invasion or any lawlessness whatsoever. I believe he's smarter than that.
I do not believe he leads a murderous barbarous mob. -
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 18:52 last edited by Renauda@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
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@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 18:54 last edited by@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
Are we playing word games now? In what way do I not rate as a conservative? Use your words.
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wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 19:01 last edited by
I'm a liberal, but I'm not an American liberal.
I like Top Gear, but I won't countenance American Top Gear under any circumstances.
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@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
Are we playing word games now? In what way do I not rate as a conservative? Use your words.
wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 19:05 last edited by@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
Are we playing word games now? In what way do I not rate as a conservative? Use your words.
No. Why?
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@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
Are we playing word games now? In what way do I not rate as a conservative? Use your words.
No. Why?
wrote on 23 Feb 2021, 19:07 last edited by@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace said in The Big Lie:
@renauda said in The Big Lie:
@horace I agree one is a bigger problem than the other. But that is where we are surely bound to disagree.
What did conservatives ever do to you?
What conservatives? Haven't seen or heard much of them lately. Do you know any? I believe there is one conservative poster in this forum but that individual hasn't posted in this thread yet.
Are we playing word games now? In what way do I not rate as a conservative? Use your words.
No. Why?
I self identify as a conservative. It's pretty illiberal of you to question my self identification. Conservative even.