25,000

Jolly · 17 Feb 2021, 01:06

As long as economic disparity exists at the level it does, and the enforcement of our border and our laws are lax, you will NEVER stop them from coming. You won't even slow them down.

taiwan_girl · 17 Feb 2021, 01:19

@jolly said in 25,000:

As long as economic disparity exists at the level it does, and the enforcement of our border and our laws are lax, you will NEVER stop them from coming. You won't even slow them down.

I mostly agree, and it seems like you agree with my point that stopping them at the border is not a good protocol. You will never stop them from coming.

My idea is to decrease the economic disparity. Building a border wall does nothing to help that,

Jolly · wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 01:19

@taiwan_girl said in 25,000:

@jolly said in 25,000:

As long as economic disparity exists at the level it does, and the enforcement of our border and our laws are lax, you will NEVER stop them from coming. You won't even slow them down.

I mostly agree, and it seems like you agree with my point that stopping them at the border is not a good protocol. You will never stop them from coming.

My idea is to decrease the economic disparity. Building a border wall does nothing to help that,

Yeah, but a mile-deep minefield would.

No, our borders are very hard to control, but if you have something to interdict them at the border, combined with robust punishment if caught, you have shut the river down to a drip.

Jolly · 17 Feb 2021, 01:29

And something else to consider...

https://quillette.com/2021/02/15/do-lockdowns-work-only-if-you-lock-the-borders-down-too/

taiwan_girl · 17 Feb 2021, 03:57

@jolly said in 25,000:

And something else to consider...

https://quillette.com/2021/02/15/do-lockdowns-work-only-if-you-lock-the-borders-down-too/

Absolutely 100% agree. I have mentioned countries in Asia that have been "successful" with COVID and one of the common things that they did (in addition to things like contact trace, masks, etc) is making the "bubble" around the whole country.

But, something like that is not able to sustain long term, especially when using it for immigration. I think long term, better (and cheaper) to make the people not want to leave their home country.

Building a border wall = band aid. Doesn't cure and only temporary

Making people want to stay in their country = vaccine LOL

Jolly · 17 Feb 2021, 15:52

@taiwan_girl said in 25,000:

@jolly said in 25,000:

And something else to consider...

https://quillette.com/2021/02/15/do-lockdowns-work-only-if-you-lock-the-borders-down-too/

Absolutely 100% agree. I have mentioned countries in Asia that have been "successful" with COVID and one of the common things that they did (in addition to things like contact trace, masks, etc) is making the "bubble" around the whole country.

But, something like that is not able to sustain long term, especially when using it for immigration. I think long term, better (and cheaper) to make the people not want to leave their home country.

Building a border wall = band aid. Doesn't cure and only temporary

Making people want to stay in their country = vaccine LOL

Do you have any idea how much blood and treasure the American people have spent "trying to make other people's lives better"?

I'm not saying our foreign policy has always been altruistic. We are a great nation with our own interests. But we have stuck our necks out on more than one occasion.

Sometimes, it works. Most if the time, it doesn't. People have to fix themselves, if they wish to see real and lasting change. To just say, "let's make people not want to leave their own country" is mostly unworkable and reeks of naivety.

taiwan_girl · J Jolly 17 Feb 2021, 03:57

@jolly said in 25,000:

@taiwan_girl said in 25,000:

@jolly said in 25,000:

And something else to consider...

https://quillette.com/2021/02/15/do-lockdowns-work-only-if-you-lock-the-borders-down-too/

Absolutely 100% agree. I have mentioned countries in Asia that have been "successful" with COVID and one of the common things that they did (in addition to things like contact trace, masks, etc) is making the "bubble" around the whole country.

But, something like that is not able to sustain long term, especially when using it for immigration. I think long term, better (and cheaper) to make the people not want to leave their home country.

Building a border wall = band aid. Doesn't cure and only temporary

Making people want to stay in their country = vaccine LOL

Do you have any idea how much blood and treasure the American people have spent "trying to make other people's lives better"?

I'm not saying our foreign policy has always been altruistic. We are a great nation with our own interests. But we have stuck our necks out on more than one occasion.

Sometimes, it works. Most if the time, it doesn't. People have to fix themselves, if they wish to see real and lasting change. To just say, "let's make people not want to leave their own country" is mostly unworkable and reeks of naivety.

I agree that the US has done more for other countries than any other country in the world. No doubt about that.

And I do believe that the efforts the US has made, do often work more than they dont.

But you are right, the people there in other countries have to have responsibility for the change also. It cannot be, and never should be, the US coming and saying, "Do this. Doesn't matter what YOU want. We know what we want you to do." That is a receipt for failure.

OVerall, people are pretty good. And in my experience in different countries, people who illegal immigrate do not do it as their first choice. IF there were a choice:

A. opportunity to improve their life in their home country
B. illegal immigrate to a strange country, different language, etc.

The high majority of people will choose A

Copper · wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 16:41

@taiwan_girl said in 25,000:

My idea is to decrease the economic disparity.

The problem with that is that the democrat strategy to reduce disparity will be to hurt the US economy. This is easier than helping the south-of-the-border economy.

LuFins Dad · 18 Feb 2021, 23:37

@taiwan_girl said in 25,000:

@jolly said in 25,000:

@taiwan_girl said in 25,000:

@jolly said in 25,000:

And something else to consider...

https://quillette.com/2021/02/15/do-lockdowns-work-only-if-you-lock-the-borders-down-too/

Absolutely 100% agree. I have mentioned countries in Asia that have been "successful" with COVID and one of the common things that they did (in addition to things like contact trace, masks, etc) is making the "bubble" around the whole country.

But, something like that is not able to sustain long term, especially when using it for immigration. I think long term, better (and cheaper) to make the people not want to leave their home country.

Building a border wall = band aid. Doesn't cure and only temporary

Making people want to stay in their country = vaccine LOL

Do you have any idea how much blood and treasure the American people have spent "trying to make other people's lives better"?

I'm not saying our foreign policy has always been altruistic. We are a great nation with our own interests. But we have stuck our necks out on more than one occasion.

Sometimes, it works. Most if the time, it doesn't. People have to fix themselves, if they wish to see real and lasting change. To just say, "let's make people not want to leave their own country" is mostly unworkable and reeks of naivety.

I agree that the US has done more for other countries than any other country in the world. No doubt about that.

And I do believe that the efforts the US has made, do often work more than they dont.

But you are right, the people there in other countries have to have responsibility for the change also. It cannot be, and never should be, the US coming and saying, "Do this. Doesn't matter what YOU want. We know what we want you to do." That is a receipt for failure.

OVerall, people are pretty good. And in my experience in different countries, people who illegal immigrate do not do it as their first choice. IF there were a choice:

A. opportunity to improve their life in their home country
B. illegal immigrate to a strange country, different language, etc.

The high majority of people will choose A

Often these countries are in the condition they are in because of poor leadership. Either corruption or incompetence and often both. The US giving money to these nations just winds up feeding the corrupt or being used incompetently. I’m reminded of the German “super rabbits” given to North Korea as part of a breeding program. The North Korean officers had a banquet to celebrate and ate all the rabbits.

Giving money to many of these countries is oftentimes just making things worse.

Axtremus · 19 Feb 2021, 01:37

@lufins-dad said in 25,000:

Often these countries are in the condition they are in because of poor leadership. Either corruption or incompetence and often both. The US giving money to these nations just winds up feeding the corrupt or being used incompetently. I’m reminded of the German “super rabbits” given to North Korea as part of a breeding program. The North Korean officers had a banquet to celebrate and ate all the rabbits.

Champion human rights and promote democracy. Do not lend support to despots and autocrats. Resist the temptation to support "our dictators" just for geopolitical expedience. That way you move the world towards the direction of electing good leaders.

Jolly · 19 Feb 2021, 01:42

@axtremus said in 25,000:

@lufins-dad said in 25,000:

Often these countries are in the condition they are in because of poor leadership. Either corruption or incompetence and often both. The US giving money to these nations just winds up feeding the corrupt or being used incompetently. I’m reminded of the German “super rabbits” given to North Korea as part of a breeding program. The North Korean officers had a banquet to celebrate and ate all the rabbits.

Champion human rights and promote democracy. Do not lend support to despots and autocrats. Resist the temptation to support "our dictators" just for geopolitical expedience. That way you move the world towards the direction of electing good leaders.

God Bless you...

Axtremus · J Jolly 19 Feb 2021, 01:37

@jolly said in 25,000:

@axtremus said in 25,000:

Champion human rights and promote democracy. Do not lend support to despots and autocrats. Resist the temptation to support "our dictators" just for geopolitical expedience. That way you move the world towards the direction of electing good leaders.

God Bless you...

Thank you for your kind sentiment.

taiwan_girl · wrote on 19 Feb 2021, 02:55

@lufins-dad said in 25,000:

@taiwan_girl said in 25,000:

@jolly said in 25,000:

@taiwan_girl said in 25,000:

@jolly said in 25,000:

And something else to consider...

https://quillette.com/2021/02/15/do-lockdowns-work-only-if-you-lock-the-borders-down-too/

Absolutely 100% agree. I have mentioned countries in Asia that have been "successful" with COVID and one of the common things that they did (in addition to things like contact trace, masks, etc) is making the "bubble" around the whole country.

But, something like that is not able to sustain long term, especially when using it for immigration. I think long term, better (and cheaper) to make the people not want to leave their home country.

Building a border wall = band aid. Doesn't cure and only temporary

Making people want to stay in their country = vaccine LOL

Do you have any idea how much blood and treasure the American people have spent "trying to make other people's lives better"?

I'm not saying our foreign policy has always been altruistic. We are a great nation with our own interests. But we have stuck our necks out on more than one occasion.

Sometimes, it works. Most if the time, it doesn't. People have to fix themselves, if they wish to see real and lasting change. To just say, "let's make people not want to leave their own country" is mostly unworkable and reeks of naivety.

I agree that the US has done more for other countries than any other country in the world. No doubt about that.

And I do believe that the efforts the US has made, do often work more than they dont.

But you are right, the people there in other countries have to have responsibility for the change also. It cannot be, and never should be, the US coming and saying, "Do this. Doesn't matter what YOU want. We know what we want you to do." That is a receipt for failure.

OVerall, people are pretty good. And in my experience in different countries, people who illegal immigrate do not do it as their first choice. IF there were a choice:

A. opportunity to improve their life in their home country
B. illegal immigrate to a strange country, different language, etc.

The high majority of people will choose A

Often these countries are in the condition they are in because of poor leadership. Either corruption or incompetence and often both. The US giving money to these nations just winds up feeding the corrupt or being used incompetently. I’m reminded of the German “super rabbits” given to North Korea as part of a breeding program. The North Korean officers had a banquet to celebrate and ate all the rabbits.

Giving money to many of these countries is oftentimes just making things worse.

Agree with the first part for sure. You (general you) however cannot just walk away.

Moving to a more isolation policy will result in:

giving power to others in the world (for example China)
basically saying that our country will not be a superpower anymore in 100 years.

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