$3000 per child economic stimulus
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@axtremus said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
(much lower than what I previously estimated)
Me too. It's because it includes the already existing 2k child tax credit.
This adds 1k, and makes it refundable and 'advanceable'.
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@axtremus said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
More details ...
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/09/democrats-include-3000-dollar-child-tax-credit-in-covid-relief.html
The estimated cost to giving $3000 per child is $120 Billion per year (much lower than what I previously estimated), and if that is made “permanent,” is expected to lift 4.1 million children out of poverty.
It's an increase of $1000 per year. $1000 per year will lift 4.1 million children out of poverty? Color me skeptical.
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“I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill
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@lufins-dad said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
It's an increase of $1000 per year. $1000 per year will lift 4.1 million children out of poverty? Color me skeptical.
Sorta passes the sniff test. The poverty line is a discrete number for a family of a given size.
Look at family of four for example, poverty line is 24k (says google). It makes sense that the number of households making within 23k-24k would be large, probably measuring in the single-digit millions. Then repeat that exercise for families of 2 and 3... and you could see it add up.
Its just that 'lifting you out of poverty' has a life-transforming ring to it, whereas in reality, for a family of 4, going from 23.5k to 24.5k is welcome, but hardly game changing.
When you shake someone's deep sense of self-worth, leaving a scar in their ego, they will persistently try to diminish you through petty arguments & obsessive captious criticism of your actions, just to soothe the wound.
- Nassim Nicholas Taleb
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My wife and I have done well the last few years in terms of income. Not Horace-level, but still pretty good and I recognize we are fortunate to have the employment we do.
While I understand the concept of phasing out all of these stimulus checks once you exceed a certain household income... the one-two punch of us paying a higher % of our income to the IRS than our neighbors and also not getting any of the distribution of cash back really is a weird and disappointing feeling. Disheartening? Unmotivating? Not sure the adjective.
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@89th said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
My wife and I have done well the last few years in terms of income. Not Horace-level, but still pretty good and I recognize we are fortunate to have the employment we do.
While I understand the concept of phasing out all of these stimulus checks once you exceed a certain household income... the one-two punch of us paying a higher % of our income to the IRS than our neighbors and also not getting any of the distribution of cash back really is a weird and disappointing feeling. Disheartening? Unmotivating? Not sure the adjective.
It sounds like you're in favor of government handouts.
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@mik said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
The crack dealers are very excited about the prospect.
More likely meth and heroine. For a significant number of these kids, their lives are likely going to get worse from this.
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@aqua-letifer said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
@89th said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
My wife and I have done well the last few years in terms of income. Not Horace-level, but still pretty good and I recognize we are fortunate to have the employment we do.
While I understand the concept of phasing out all of these stimulus checks once you exceed a certain household income... the one-two punch of us paying a higher % of our income to the IRS than our neighbors and also not getting any of the distribution of cash back really is a weird and disappointing feeling. Disheartening? Unmotivating? Not sure the adjective.
It sounds like you're in favor of government handouts.
Nailed it!
My view on taxes and government support, etc... is basically, the government should help those below the poverty line (for a finite period) and those who truly cannot help themselves, whether through tax breaks or smart government benefit programs. But once you reach a certain level, treat all citizens the same. Same benefits. Same tax %. Keeps it fair.
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@89th said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
My view on taxes and government support, etc... is basically, the government should help those below the poverty line (for a finite period) and those who truly cannot help themselves, whether through tax breaks or smart government benefit programs.
That's why they're able to send the amount they can to those in lower brackets. If they gave the same amount to everybody, including government contractors, then those who could really use the assistance would get much less, at the "benefit" of giving that same amount to those who don't need it.
Please love yourself.
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@aqua-letifer said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
@89th said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
My view on taxes and government support, etc... is basically, the government should help those below the poverty line (for a finite period) and those who truly cannot help themselves, whether through tax breaks or smart government benefit programs.
That's why they're able to send the amount they can to those in lower brackets. If they gave the same amount to everybody, including government contractors, then those who could really use the assistance would get much less, at the "benefit" of giving that same amount to those who don't need it.
Well, I don't think they picked the amount based on how much they could afford, but I get your point and I understand that.
You've known me for a while, I think even when I made minimum wage at the movie theater until now...I'm a simpleton and just think taxes should be fair (and to me that means use the percentage, the more you make the more you pay in dollars, but it's the same % for everyone).
Meh, I know this is a blackhole of a topic...
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@89th I'm fine with a flat tax, but every time I look into the definition of "what you make" should be, it looks impossible to implement.
Related: A fun thing I like to try to puzzle out all the time, because I find it impossible, is the inequality Pareto curve. The more you get the more you get, and the less you have the less you have. The stupid rich have more and more of the total share of wealth in every Western country with each passing decade. And it's a fact that no matter how fair you think the system is, once enough people at the bottom feel like the system is no longer fair to them, they flip the board and people get shot or hung regardless.
To be clear, I have no idea what the answer to that should be. "Take more money from rich people" is a non-solution. UBI would create a nightmare. But the fact remains that the degree of inequality is directly tied to the degree of violent crime. Saying that shouldn't be so doesn't fix it and every solution, including do nothing, seems destined to fail.
On the lighter side of things, I recently learned that wombats poop cubes.
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@mik said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
The crack dealers are very excited about the prospect.
True story...
When the last stimulus checks came out, I worked that weekend. I did multiple drug screens from the ED, two or three times as many as usual.
I didn't have a single negative panel.
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@aqua-letifer said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
@89th I'm fine with a flat tax, but every time I look into the definition of "what you make" should be, it looks impossible to implement.
Related: A fun thing I like to try to puzzle out all the time, because I find it impossible, is the inequality Pareto curve. The more you get the more you get, and the less you have the less you have. The stupid rich have more and more of the total share of wealth in every Western country with each passing decade. And it's a fact that no matter how fair you think the system is, once enough people at the bottom feel like the system is no longer fair to them, they flip the board and people get shot or hung regardless.
To be clear, I have no idea what the answer to that should be. "Take more money from rich people" is a non-solution. UBI would create a nightmare. But the fact remains that the degree of inequality is directly tied to the degree of violent crime. Saying that shouldn't be so doesn't fix it and every solution, including do nothing, seems destined to fail.
On the lighter side of things, I recently learned that wombats poop cubes.
LOL - and good post/reply. Good chit.
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@aqua-letifer said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
The more you get the more you get, and the less you have the less you have.
Yup. If you have $1 million, and get a 5% return on that, you are still getting a lot of money $50,000.
If you have $10,000, get a 10% return, you only have $1000 extra.
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That’s why Horace is flying all of us to Napa for TNCRs 20th reunion in 2025
When you shake someone's deep sense of self-worth, leaving a scar in their ego, they will persistently try to diminish you through petty arguments & obsessive captious criticism of your actions, just to soothe the wound.
- Nassim Nicholas Taleb
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@jon-nyc said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
@lufins-dad said in $3000 per child economic stimulus:
It's an increase of $1000 per year. $1000 per year will lift 4.1 million children out of poverty? Color me skeptical.
Sorta passes the sniff test. The poverty line is a discrete number for a family of a given size.
Look at family of four for example, poverty line is 24k (says google). It makes sense that the number of households making within 23k-24k would be large, probably measuring in the single-digit millions. Then repeat that exercise for families of 2 and 3... and you could see it add up.
Its just that 'lifting you out of poverty' has a life-transforming ring to it, whereas in reality, for a family of 4, going from 23.5k to 24.5k is welcome, but hardly game changing.
Technically, isn’t it a tax credit and wouldn’t count as income? That would mean their income would stay the same and they wouldn’t cross the poverty threshold ...
If it does count as income, great... Now think of the families of 4 making $32k that now are making $34K (assuming 2 kids). This puts them over the limit for school meal programs... It will also push millions of families over the income eligibility levels for HUD, WIC, Social Security, DC School Choice, Pell Grants, Need based scholarships and thousands of other programs... The only reasonable response will be to raise the poverty line...Putting those 4.1 Million back in poverty.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/05/17/biden-child-tax-benefit/
Child cash benefit will begin hitting millions of parents’ bank accounts July 15
Administration estimates 88 percent of all American children are slated to receive new monthly payments -- with no action required$300 per child under 6 and up to $250 per child over 6. Like the earlier stimulus payment, there is a means-tested cutoff at around the $75k(individual)/$150k(couple) income level.
