What She Saw
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@aqua-letifer said in What She Saw:
@mik said in What She Saw:
They are not threatening an election, they are protesting an election they believe was fraudulent.
The ones who were just hanging out and not breaking any laws are fine; they're precisely as guilty as the peaceful BLM protesters, which is not at all. Are you willing to admit that's true?
Those in particular who broke into the Capitol building, assaulted police and journalists, destroyed a shitload of A/V equipment and a few people died as a result? If you're saying those people were "protesting," then I will not respect that opinion.
In neither case are we talking about the peaceful protestors.
wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 01:34 last edited by@mik said in What She Saw:
In neither case are we talking about the peaceful protestors
So how then is breaking & entering, assaulting police officers and civilians, destruction of property, and attempting to stop a national election somehow less bad than setting buildings on fire, and assaulting police and citizens?
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@doctor-phibes said in What She Saw:
@copper said in What She Saw:
Would the invasion have happened no matter what he said? Based on the obvious planning by the invaders, I'd say yes.
Who organized the initial protest rally?
The peace loving president.
wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 01:34 last edited by@copper said in What She Saw:
@doctor-phibes said in What She Saw:
@copper said in What She Saw:
Would the invasion have happened no matter what he said? Based on the obvious planning by the invaders, I'd say yes.
Who organized the initial protest rally?
The peace loving president.
It's a bit much blaming Jimmy Carter.
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If I truly believed that the election was stolen - especially something that was supposed to be a landslide win - if I truly believed it was stolen: I would see armed insurrection as justified.
What other recourse do you have?
wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 01:41 last edited byThe other recourse is to reorganize and act politically, since the effects of a civil war against the common good are far, far more detrimental than a stolen election.
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wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 02:12 last edited by
As of the end of 6/20, the number of people killed in BLM protests = 19.
Police injured = 700.
Damage = $1.4 Billion, but some estimates were higher.
Again, numbers were for the end of 6/20.
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@mik said in What She Saw:
In neither case are we talking about the peaceful protestors
So how then is breaking & entering, assaulting police officers and civilians, destruction of property, and attempting to stop a national election somehow less bad than setting buildings on fire, and assaulting police and citizens?
wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 02:21 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in What She Saw:
@mik said in What She Saw:
In neither case are we talking about the peaceful protestors
So how then is breaking & entering, assaulting police officers and civilians, destruction of property, and attempting to stop a national election somehow less bad than setting buildings on fire, and assaulting police and citizens?
It’s not. You were arguing it was worse, which I also disagree with.
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wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 02:46 last edited by
For me it's pretty simple.
Both BLM in the summer of 2020 and MAGA in the last few months have the right to protest, and both were greatly and tragically misinformed.
Both led to associated violence and other criminal acts by a subset of the protesting crowd.
The current focus is on the Capitol invasion, and after months and months of a sitting President inciting his base about a stolen election that we must not accept (which is false), it turns out he tried tipping the proverbial vending machine over one too many times to where it actually fell down and he lost control of his army of protesters. Now he's facing the consequences, both from commercial companies as well as possible punishment from the legislative branch.
...and guess what, if Obama had lost to Romney in 2012 and done what Trump has been doing, you better believe the MAGA mob would be pointing their spears at the white house instead of the Capitol.
Yes, it is completely hypocritical of those (politicians, media, individuals) who supported or encouraged BLM and the associated rage/acts while not supporting the rage/acts of the MAGA crowd.
So, again, for me it is simple. It's not about politics... protest all you want, even if it's from lies and misinformation, just don't let it turn into violence and criminal acts and especially don't encourage it if you're the President.
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For me it's pretty simple.
Both BLM in the summer of 2020 and MAGA in the last few months have the right to protest, and both were greatly and tragically misinformed.
Both led to associated violence and other criminal acts by a subset of the protesting crowd.
The current focus is on the Capitol invasion, and after months and months of a sitting President inciting his base about a stolen election that we must not accept (which is false), it turns out he tried tipping the proverbial vending machine over one too many times to where it actually fell down and he lost control of his army of protesters. Now he's facing the consequences, both from commercial companies as well as possible punishment from the legislative branch.
...and guess what, if Obama had lost to Romney in 2012 and done what Trump has been doing, you better believe the MAGA mob would be pointing their spears at the white house instead of the Capitol.
Yes, it is completely hypocritical of those (politicians, media, individuals) who supported or encouraged BLM and the associated rage/acts while not supporting the rage/acts of the MAGA crowd.
So, again, for me it is simple. It's not about politics... protest all you want, even if it's from lies and misinformation, just don't let it turn into violence and criminal acts and especially don't encourage it if you're the President.
wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 02:54 last edited by Jolly 1 Dec 2021, 02:55@89th said in What She Saw:
For me it's pretty simple.
Both BLM in the summer of 2020 and MAGA in the last few months have the right to protest, and both were greatly and tragically misinformed.
Both led to associated violence and other criminal acts by a subset of the protesting crowd.
The current focus is on the Capitol invasion, and after months and months of a sitting President inciting his base about a stolen election that we must not accept (which is false), it turns out he tried tipping the proverbial vending machine over one too many times to where it actually fell down and he lost control of his army of protesters. Now he's facing the consequences, both from commercial companies as well as possible punishment from the legislative branch.
...and guess what, if Obama had lost to Romney in 2012 and done what Trump has been doing, you better believe the MAGA mob would be pointing their spears at the white house instead of the Capitol.
Yes, it is completely hypocritical of those (politicians, media, individuals) who supported or encouraged BLM and the associated rage/acts while not supporting the rage/acts of the MAGA crowd.
So, again, for me it is simple. It's not about politics... protest all you want, even if it's from lies and misinformation, just don't let it turn into violence and criminal acts and especially don't encourage it if you're the President.
You know, I might buy some of that, if you didn't have a long history of posts detailing how much you hate President Trump...
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@89th said in What She Saw:
For me it's pretty simple.
Both BLM in the summer of 2020 and MAGA in the last few months have the right to protest, and both were greatly and tragically misinformed.
Both led to associated violence and other criminal acts by a subset of the protesting crowd.
The current focus is on the Capitol invasion, and after months and months of a sitting President inciting his base about a stolen election that we must not accept (which is false), it turns out he tried tipping the proverbial vending machine over one too many times to where it actually fell down and he lost control of his army of protesters. Now he's facing the consequences, both from commercial companies as well as possible punishment from the legislative branch.
...and guess what, if Obama had lost to Romney in 2012 and done what Trump has been doing, you better believe the MAGA mob would be pointing their spears at the white house instead of the Capitol.
Yes, it is completely hypocritical of those (politicians, media, individuals) who supported or encouraged BLM and the associated rage/acts while not supporting the rage/acts of the MAGA crowd.
So, again, for me it is simple. It's not about politics... protest all you want, even if it's from lies and misinformation, just don't let it turn into violence and criminal acts and especially don't encourage it if you're the President.
You know, I might buy some of that, if you didn't have a long history of posts detailing how much you hate President Trump...
wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 02:54 last edited byThis post is deleted! -
@89th said in What She Saw:
For me it's pretty simple.
Both BLM in the summer of 2020 and MAGA in the last few months have the right to protest, and both were greatly and tragically misinformed.
Both led to associated violence and other criminal acts by a subset of the protesting crowd.
The current focus is on the Capitol invasion, and after months and months of a sitting President inciting his base about a stolen election that we must not accept (which is false), it turns out he tried tipping the proverbial vending machine over one too many times to where it actually fell down and he lost control of his army of protesters. Now he's facing the consequences, both from commercial companies as well as possible punishment from the legislative branch.
...and guess what, if Obama had lost to Romney in 2012 and done what Trump has been doing, you better believe the MAGA mob would be pointing their spears at the white house instead of the Capitol.
Yes, it is completely hypocritical of those (politicians, media, individuals) who supported or encouraged BLM and the associated rage/acts while not supporting the rage/acts of the MAGA crowd.
So, again, for me it is simple. It's not about politics... protest all you want, even if it's from lies and misinformation, just don't let it turn into violence and criminal acts and especially don't encourage it if you're the President.
You know, I might buy some of that, if you didn't have a long history of posts detailing how much you hate President Trump...
wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 03:07 last edited by@jolly said in What She Saw:
You know, I might buy some of that, if you didn't have a long history of posts detailing how much you hate President Trump...
You'd be surprised with the number of things Trump has done over the
fourfirst three years that I really supported. Overall he actually delivered on an impressive number of conservative fronts, of which I am grateful.However, I have been consistent in my dislike of how he lies prolifically (usually getting away with it by saying "many people have told me..." or "what I've heard is..."). I think he is of immoral character and I don't want to look back and tell my kids I pulled the lever next to his name, hence my votes for Libertarian candidates (as I also refuse to vote for Clinton or Biden based on countless policies I disagree with them on).
I know many folks (including my wife) who voted for Trump and I respect their vote. We each have our own reasons and my dislike of Trump doesn't mean I also dislike anyone who voted for him.
That being said, I think his handling of the pandemic was a complete fumble early on when it counted, and his handling of losing an election has been embarrassing to say the least and a downright existential threat to our democracy at the worst.
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@aqua-letifer said in What She Saw:
@mik said in What She Saw:
In neither case are we talking about the peaceful protestors
So how then is breaking & entering, assaulting police officers and civilians, destruction of property, and attempting to stop a national election somehow less bad than setting buildings on fire, and assaulting police and citizens?
It’s not. You were arguing it was worse, which I also disagree with.
wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 03:52 last edited by@mik said in What She Saw:
@aqua-letifer said in What She Saw:
@mik said in What She Saw:
In neither case are we talking about the peaceful protestors
So how then is breaking & entering, assaulting police officers and civilians, destruction of property, and attempting to stop a national election somehow less bad than setting buildings on fire, and assaulting police and citizens?
It’s not. You were arguing it was worse, which I also disagree with.
Yeah okay, fair enough. I'll admit that the types of events are pretty different, maybe so different that they can't really be compared quantitatively. (I still think I'm right but what does it matter.
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@mik said in What She Saw:
@aqua-letifer said in What She Saw:
@mik said in What She Saw:
In neither case are we talking about the peaceful protestors
So how then is breaking & entering, assaulting police officers and civilians, destruction of property, and attempting to stop a national election somehow less bad than setting buildings on fire, and assaulting police and citizens?
It’s not. You were arguing it was worse, which I also disagree with.
Yeah okay, fair enough. I'll admit that the types of events are pretty different, maybe so different that they can't really be compared quantitatively. (I still think I'm right but what does it matter.
)wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 04:06 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in What She Saw:
@mik said in What She Saw:
@aqua-letifer said in What She Saw:
@mik said in What She Saw:
In neither case are we talking about the peaceful protestors
So how then is breaking & entering, assaulting police officers and civilians, destruction of property, and attempting to stop a national election somehow less bad than setting buildings on fire, and assaulting police and citizens?
It’s not. You were arguing it was worse, which I also disagree with.
Yeah okay, fair enough. I'll admit that the types of events are pretty different, maybe so different that they can't really be compared quantitatively. (I still think I'm right but what does it matter.
)Well, you aren’t, but you are right that it does not matter so much.
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@jolly said in What She Saw:
You know, I might buy some of that, if you didn't have a long history of posts detailing how much you hate President Trump...
You'd be surprised with the number of things Trump has done over the
fourfirst three years that I really supported. Overall he actually delivered on an impressive number of conservative fronts, of which I am grateful.However, I have been consistent in my dislike of how he lies prolifically (usually getting away with it by saying "many people have told me..." or "what I've heard is..."). I think he is of immoral character and I don't want to look back and tell my kids I pulled the lever next to his name, hence my votes for Libertarian candidates (as I also refuse to vote for Clinton or Biden based on countless policies I disagree with them on).
I know many folks (including my wife) who voted for Trump and I respect their vote. We each have our own reasons and my dislike of Trump doesn't mean I also dislike anyone who voted for him.
That being said, I think his handling of the pandemic was a complete fumble early on when it counted, and his handling of losing an election has been embarrassing to say the least and a downright existential threat to our democracy at the worst.
wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 15:58 last edited by@89th said in What She Saw:
@jolly said in What She Saw:
You know, I might buy some of that, if you didn't have a long history of posts detailing how much you hate President Trump...
You'd be surprised with the number of things Trump has done over the
fourfirst three years that I really supported. Overall he actually delivered on an impressive number of conservative fronts, of which I am grateful.However, I have been consistent in my dislike of how he lies prolifically (usually getting away with it by saying "many people have told me..." or "what I've heard is..."). I think he is of immoral character and I don't want to look back and tell my kids I pulled the lever next to his name, hence my votes for Libertarian candidates (as I also refuse to vote for Clinton or Biden based on countless policies I disagree with them on).
I know many folks (including my wife) who voted for Trump and I respect their vote. We each have our own reasons and my dislike of Trump doesn't mean I also dislike anyone who voted for him.
That being said, I think his handling of the pandemic was a complete fumble early on when it counted, and his handling of losing an election has been embarrassing to say the least and a downright existential threat to our democracy at the worst.
Well said.
And as I said before, not all crimes are equal. May not be fair, may not be right, but that is the case.
Is breaking a window and violently entering a building a crime?
Is it the same crime if one is a 7-11 and one is the US capital? Both are buildings. Hey, it is the same thing, right?
No, it isn't and I think we all realize that.
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@89th said in What She Saw:
@jolly said in What She Saw:
You know, I might buy some of that, if you didn't have a long history of posts detailing how much you hate President Trump...
You'd be surprised with the number of things Trump has done over the
fourfirst three years that I really supported. Overall he actually delivered on an impressive number of conservative fronts, of which I am grateful.However, I have been consistent in my dislike of how he lies prolifically (usually getting away with it by saying "many people have told me..." or "what I've heard is..."). I think he is of immoral character and I don't want to look back and tell my kids I pulled the lever next to his name, hence my votes for Libertarian candidates (as I also refuse to vote for Clinton or Biden based on countless policies I disagree with them on).
I know many folks (including my wife) who voted for Trump and I respect their vote. We each have our own reasons and my dislike of Trump doesn't mean I also dislike anyone who voted for him.
That being said, I think his handling of the pandemic was a complete fumble early on when it counted, and his handling of losing an election has been embarrassing to say the least and a downright existential threat to our democracy at the worst.
Well said.
And as I said before, not all crimes are equal. May not be fair, may not be right, but that is the case.
Is breaking a window and violently entering a building a crime?
Is it the same crime if one is a 7-11 and one is the US capital? Both are buildings. Hey, it is the same thing, right?
No, it isn't and I think we all realize that.
wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 16:28 last edited by@taiwan_girl that’s a good question. An assault on federal buildings is a “bigger” crime than breaking into a convenience store.
So, lets keep the comparison equal: WHat about storming a federal courthouse and throwing Molotov cocktails in an attempt to burn it down?
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wrote on 12 Jan 2021, 16:56 last edited by Mik 1 Dec 2021, 16:57
There's just no logical way to reliably classify the 1/6 events as significantly worse than the BLM riots. They were both awful in some similar and some different ways. In my book there's also no way to claim the police response to 1/6 was worse than BLM either. If the protestors still held the Capitol and stayed there a month, essentially holding all the citizens there hostage as they did in Seattle, you might have a case.
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There's just no logical way to reliably classify the 1/6 events as significantly worse than the BLM riots. They were both awful in some similar and some different ways. In my book there's also no way to claim the police response to 1/6 was worse than BLM either. If the protestors still held the Capitol and stayed there a month, essentially holding all the citizens there hostage as they did in Seattle, you might have a case.
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@taiwan_girl that’s a good question. An assault on federal buildings is a “bigger” crime than breaking into a convenience store.
So, lets keep the comparison equal: WHat about storming a federal courthouse and throwing Molotov cocktails in an attempt to burn it down?
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 00:00 last edited by@george-k said in What She Saw:
@taiwan_girl that’s a good question. An assault on federal buildings is a “bigger” crime than breaking into a convenience store.
So, lets keep the comparison equal: WHat about storming a federal courthouse and throwing Molotov cocktails in an attempt to burn it down?
Dont know if it is right or wrong, but they are still not equal in the eye of most people or in the investigation and pursuit of it or in the news it will give off. Even if they are on the same federal level, some crimes are more "equal" than others. Just the way it is.
President Trump gets a pickpocket and loses his wallet.
Congressman Doe also gets a pickpocket and loses his wallet.Both are federal employees. Both crimes are basically the same.
Which crime will make more news and which will be investigated more?
(Kind of reminds me of that story you posted about the robbers who broke into the gangsters house. A "ordinary" house robbery, but LOL, looked what happened to the robbers)
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@george-k said in What She Saw:
@taiwan_girl that’s a good question. An assault on federal buildings is a “bigger” crime than breaking into a convenience store.
So, lets keep the comparison equal: WHat about storming a federal courthouse and throwing Molotov cocktails in an attempt to burn it down?
Dont know if it is right or wrong, but they are still not equal in the eye of most people or in the investigation and pursuit of it or in the news it will give off. Even if they are on the same federal level, some crimes are more "equal" than others. Just the way it is.
President Trump gets a pickpocket and loses his wallet.
Congressman Doe also gets a pickpocket and loses his wallet.Both are federal employees. Both crimes are basically the same.
Which crime will make more news and which will be investigated more?
(Kind of reminds me of that story you posted about the robbers who broke into the gangsters house. A "ordinary" house robbery, but LOL, looked what happened to the robbers)
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 00:04 last edited by@taiwan_girl said in What She Saw:
they are still not equal in the eye of most people or in the investigation and pursuit of it or in the news it will give off.
In the eye of the law, they are the same - both are federal buildings.
Yeah the heat of the Capitol is hotter, but, in the eye of the law, there is no distinction. The rioters in Portland, for the most part, were given a pass.
Why do you think that is?
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@george-k said in What She Saw:
@taiwan_girl that’s a good question. An assault on federal buildings is a “bigger” crime than breaking into a convenience store.
So, lets keep the comparison equal: WHat about storming a federal courthouse and throwing Molotov cocktails in an attempt to burn it down?
Dont know if it is right or wrong, but they are still not equal in the eye of most people or in the investigation and pursuit of it or in the news it will give off. Even if they are on the same federal level, some crimes are more "equal" than others. Just the way it is.
President Trump gets a pickpocket and loses his wallet.
Congressman Doe also gets a pickpocket and loses his wallet.Both are federal employees. Both crimes are basically the same.
Which crime will make more news and which will be investigated more?
(Kind of reminds me of that story you posted about the robbers who broke into the gangsters house. A "ordinary" house robbery, but LOL, looked what happened to the robbers)
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 00:13 last edited by@taiwan_girl said in What She Saw:
@george-k said in What She Saw:
@taiwan_girl that’s a good question. An assault on federal buildings is a “bigger” crime than breaking into a convenience store.
So, lets keep the comparison equal: WHat about storming a federal courthouse and throwing Molotov cocktails in an attempt to burn it down?
Dont know if it is right or wrong, but they are still not equal in the eye of most people or in the investigation and pursuit of it or in the news it will give off. Even if they are on the same federal level, some crimes are more "equal" than others. Just the way it is.
President Trump gets a pickpocket and loses his wallet.
Congressman Doe also gets a pickpocket and loses his wallet.Both are federal employees. Both crimes are basically the same.
Which crime will make more news and which will be investigated more?
(Kind of reminds me of that story you posted about the robbers who broke into the gangsters house. A "ordinary" house robbery, but LOL, looked what happened to the robbers)
Fair is fair. The law is the law.
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@george-k said in What She Saw:
@taiwan_girl that’s a good question. An assault on federal buildings is a “bigger” crime than breaking into a convenience store.
So, lets keep the comparison equal: WHat about storming a federal courthouse and throwing Molotov cocktails in an attempt to burn it down?
Dont know if it is right or wrong, but they are still not equal in the eye of most people or in the investigation and pursuit of it or in the news it will give off. Even if they are on the same federal level, some crimes are more "equal" than others. Just the way it is.
President Trump gets a pickpocket and loses his wallet.
Congressman Doe also gets a pickpocket and loses his wallet.Both are federal employees. Both crimes are basically the same.
Which crime will make more news and which will be investigated more?
(Kind of reminds me of that story you posted about the robbers who broke into the gangsters house. A "ordinary" house robbery, but LOL, looked what happened to the robbers)
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 02:36 last edited by@taiwan_girl said in What She Saw:
@george-k said in What She Saw:
@taiwan_girl that’s a good question. An assault on federal buildings is a “bigger” crime than breaking into a convenience store.
So, lets keep the comparison equal: WHat about storming a federal courthouse and throwing Molotov cocktails in an attempt to burn it down?
Dont know if it is right or wrong, but they are still not equal in the eye of most people or in the investigation and pursuit of it or in the news it will give off. Even if they are on the same federal level, some crimes are more "equal" than others. Just the way it is.
President Trump gets a pickpocket and loses his wallet.
Congressman Doe also gets a pickpocket and loses his wallet.Both are federal employees. Both crimes are basically the same.
Which crime will make more news and which will be investigated more?
(Kind of reminds me of that story you posted about the robbers who broke into the gangsters house. A "ordinary" house robbery, but LOL, looked what happened to the robbers)
I agree they are not equal but tolerating one could very reasonably seen as inciting others.