Lab Leak?
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wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 00:05 last edited by
Katherine Eban looks like a credible source. Here is her VF article
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Former MI6 boss says theory COVID-19 came from Wuhan lab must not be dismissed as conspiracy
"I subscribe to the theory… that it's an engineered escapee from the Wuhan Institute (of Virology)," said Sir Richard, who served as head of the Secret Intelligence Service, MI6, between 1999 and 2004.
"I am not saying anything other than it was the result of an accident and that the virus is the consequence of gain-of-function experiments that were being conducted in Wuhan, which I don't think are particularly sinister."
Sir Richard was referring to a type of scientific research that can be carried out to modify viruses.
Ahem...
Any evidence of a lab leak that may have caused the Covid-19 pandemic would likely have been destroyed by Chinese officials by now, a former MI6 chief has claimed.
Sir Richard Dearlove said it would now be difficult to prove that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was working on “gain of function” experiments to make a novel coronavirus.
“We don’t know that’s what’s happened – but a lot of data have probably been destroyed or made to disappear so it’s going to be difficult to prove definitely the case for a ‘gain of function chimera’ being the cause of the pandemic,” he said.
The scientific community remains divided over how plausible it is that the virus began with a research lab leak, but president Joe Biden’s call for more US investigations into the origins of Covid-19 has rekindled interest in the theory.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 00:23 last edited byFormer MI6 boss says theory COVID-19 came from Wuhan lab must not be dismissed as conspiracy
"I subscribe to the theory… that it's an engineered escapee from the Wuhan Institute (of Virology)," said Sir Richard, who served as head of the Secret Intelligence Service, MI6, between 1999 and 2004.
"I am not saying anything other than it was the result of an accident and that the virus is the consequence of gain-of-function experiments that were being conducted in Wuhan, which I don't think are particularly sinister."
Sir Richard was referring to a type of scientific research that can be carried out to modify viruses.
Ahem...
Any evidence of a lab leak that may have caused the Covid-19 pandemic would likely have been destroyed by Chinese officials by now, a former MI6 chief has claimed.
Sir Richard Dearlove said it would now be difficult to prove that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was working on “gain of function” experiments to make a novel coronavirus.
“We don’t know that’s what’s happened – but a lot of data have probably been destroyed or made to disappear so it’s going to be difficult to prove definitely the case for a ‘gain of function chimera’ being the cause of the pandemic,” he said.
The scientific community remains divided over how plausible it is that the virus began with a research lab leak, but president Joe Biden’s call for more US investigations into the origins of Covid-19 has rekindled interest in the theory.
This guy's been retired for 17 years. Do you really think he knows something we don't? Well, apart from how to get his name in the papers and get paid for it, obviously.
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Former MI6 boss says theory COVID-19 came from Wuhan lab must not be dismissed as conspiracy
"I subscribe to the theory… that it's an engineered escapee from the Wuhan Institute (of Virology)," said Sir Richard, who served as head of the Secret Intelligence Service, MI6, between 1999 and 2004.
"I am not saying anything other than it was the result of an accident and that the virus is the consequence of gain-of-function experiments that were being conducted in Wuhan, which I don't think are particularly sinister."
Sir Richard was referring to a type of scientific research that can be carried out to modify viruses.
Ahem...
Any evidence of a lab leak that may have caused the Covid-19 pandemic would likely have been destroyed by Chinese officials by now, a former MI6 chief has claimed.
Sir Richard Dearlove said it would now be difficult to prove that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was working on “gain of function” experiments to make a novel coronavirus.
“We don’t know that’s what’s happened – but a lot of data have probably been destroyed or made to disappear so it’s going to be difficult to prove definitely the case for a ‘gain of function chimera’ being the cause of the pandemic,” he said.
The scientific community remains divided over how plausible it is that the virus began with a research lab leak, but president Joe Biden’s call for more US investigations into the origins of Covid-19 has rekindled interest in the theory.
This guy's been retired for 17 years. Do you really think he knows something we don't? Well, apart from how to get his name in the papers and get paid for it, obviously.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 00:30 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
This guy's been retired for 17 years.
So, I have 12 years to catch up, LOL.
Do you really think he knows something we don't?
Maybe, maybe not. He probably knows people that we don't. Maybe they told him something that they didn't tell us?
He might well be jumping on the "leak bandwagon" as you infer. I'll reserve judgment as to whether he's right for a few
monthsyears. -
@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
This guy's been retired for 17 years.
So, I have 12 years to catch up, LOL.
Do you really think he knows something we don't?
Maybe, maybe not. He probably knows people that we don't. Maybe they told him something that they didn't tell us?
He might well be jumping on the "leak bandwagon" as you infer. I'll reserve judgment as to whether he's right for a few
monthsyears.wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 11:40 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
This guy's been retired for 17 years.
So, I have 12 years to catch up, LOL.
Do you really think he knows something we don't?
Maybe, maybe not. He probably knows people that we don't. Maybe they told him something that they didn't tell us?
He might well be jumping on the "leak bandwagon" as you infer. I'll reserve judgment as to whether he's right for a few
monthsyears.I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab, but I don't think it's clear at this point. Lots of people on both sides seem to be very certain - but of course that's nothing new.
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@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
This guy's been retired for 17 years.
So, I have 12 years to catch up, LOL.
Do you really think he knows something we don't?
Maybe, maybe not. He probably knows people that we don't. Maybe they told him something that they didn't tell us?
He might well be jumping on the "leak bandwagon" as you infer. I'll reserve judgment as to whether he's right for a few
monthsyears.I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab, but I don't think it's clear at this point. Lots of people on both sides seem to be very certain - but of course that's nothing new.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 14:45 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab,
That sentence could not be uttered out loud one year ago without being labeled a conspiracy theorist nutcase. The only thing that has changed since then is the cultural messaging around the sort of person who would say that sort of thing.
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@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab,
That sentence could not be uttered out loud one year ago without being labeled a conspiracy theorist nutcase. The only thing that has changed since then is the cultural messaging around the sort of person who would say that sort of thing.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 14:49 last edited by -
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 14:53 last edited by
@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
That sentence could not be uttered out loud one year ago without being labeled a conspiracy theorist nutcase.
I said pretty much exactly the same thing a year ago.
Then you went against the scientific consensus, for no clear reason other than your own instinct, or sources of information that contradicted the scientific consensus.
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@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
That sentence could not be uttered out loud one year ago without being labeled a conspiracy theorist nutcase.
I said pretty much exactly the same thing a year ago.
Then you went against the scientific consensus, for no clear reason other than your own instinct, or sources of information that contradicted the scientific consensus.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 15:00 last edited by Doctor Phibes 6 Apr 2021, 15:00@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
That sentence could not be uttered out loud one year ago without being labeled a conspiracy theorist nutcase.
I said pretty much exactly the same thing a year ago.
Then you went against the scientific consensus, for no clear reason other than your own instinct, or sources of information that contradicted the scientific consensus.
Yeah, I'm an emotional thinker.
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wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 15:03 last edited by
To be sure some non partisan virologists believe it is impossible that the virus came from the lab.
If you are not coming from a place of motivated reasoning you need to keep in mind that smart, important, unbiased folks are lab skeptics.
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To be sure some non partisan virologists believe it is impossible that the virus came from the lab.
If you are not coming from a place of motivated reasoning you need to keep in mind that smart, important, unbiased folks are lab skeptics.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 15:19 last edited byTo be sure some non partisan virologists believe it is impossible that the virus came from the lab.
If you are not coming from a place of motivated reasoning you need to keep in mind that smart, important, unbiased folks are lab skeptics.
Like most things having to do with a "scientific consensus" which happens to have pop culture or political importance, I know for a fact that I don't know and can only reason on indirect information from the purported conclusions of others. At which time the only way I can think about my own conclusion, is to consider the sources of the conclusions I've consumed, and their expertise and motivations.
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To be sure some non partisan virologists believe it is impossible that the virus came from the lab.
If you are not coming from a place of motivated reasoning you need to keep in mind that smart, important, unbiased folks are lab skeptics.
Like most things having to do with a "scientific consensus" which happens to have pop culture or political importance, I know for a fact that I don't know and can only reason on indirect information from the purported conclusions of others. At which time the only way I can think about my own conclusion, is to consider the sources of the conclusions I've consumed, and their expertise and motivations.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 15:44 last edited by Loki 6 Apr 2021, 15:45To be sure some non partisan virologists believe it is impossible that the virus came from the lab.
If you are not coming from a place of motivated reasoning you need to keep in mind that smart, important, unbiased folks are lab skeptics.
Like most things having to do with a "scientific consensus" which happens to have pop culture or political importance, I know for a fact that I don't know and can only reason on indirect information from the purported conclusions of others. At which time the only way I can think about my own conclusion, is to consider the sources of the conclusions I've consumed, and their expertise and motivations.
When Trump claimed Obama was born in Kenya it’s hard to know when he is being truthful. These things come back to bite you and gives the other side a huge opportunity to tell lessor untruths.
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To be sure some non partisan virologists believe it is impossible that the virus came from the lab.
If you are not coming from a place of motivated reasoning you need to keep in mind that smart, important, unbiased folks are lab skeptics.
Like most things having to do with a "scientific consensus" which happens to have pop culture or political importance, I know for a fact that I don't know and can only reason on indirect information from the purported conclusions of others. At which time the only way I can think about my own conclusion, is to consider the sources of the conclusions I've consumed, and their expertise and motivations.
When Trump claimed Obama was born in Kenya it’s hard to know when he is being truthful. These things come back to bite you and gives the other side a huge opportunity to tell lessor untruths.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 16:45 last edited byWhen Trump claimed Obama was born in Kenya it’s hard to know when he is being truthful.
I always felt that with Trump whether or not something was true was irrelevant. He essentially told people what he wanted to be true. I've worked with people like that, they make great salesmen as they seem to be able to convince themselves of all kinds of rubbish.
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wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 17:25 last edited by
Today, Fauci said he'd love to see the hospital records of the three people who were hospitalized in November, 2019.
Apparently this was known to the State Department in January, and now he's curious. That's...curious. I would think the guy in charge of infectious diseases would be all over that when it happened, not 5 months later.
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Today, Fauci said he'd love to see the hospital records of the three people who were hospitalized in November, 2019.
Apparently this was known to the State Department in January, and now he's curious. That's...curious. I would think the guy in charge of infectious diseases would be all over that when it happened, not 5 months later.
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@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
This guy's been retired for 17 years.
So, I have 12 years to catch up, LOL.
Do you really think he knows something we don't?
Maybe, maybe not. He probably knows people that we don't. Maybe they told him something that they didn't tell us?
He might well be jumping on the "leak bandwagon" as you infer. I'll reserve judgment as to whether he's right for a few
monthsyears.I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab, but I don't think it's clear at this point. Lots of people on both sides seem to be very certain - but of course that's nothing new.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 18:38 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab, but I don't think it's clear at this point. Lots of people on both sides seem to be very certain - but of course that's nothing new.
I agree that is possible even probable that it can be traced back to the lab. Would not surprise me if it were the result of human error in the disposal of bio-haz waste or failure to follow handling protocols. I do not believe there was anything deliberate other than Beijing's cover up once it was known the genie was out of the bottle and people were dying.
Conspiracy? I doubt it. Negligence? Quite probable.
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@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab, but I don't think it's clear at this point. Lots of people on both sides seem to be very certain - but of course that's nothing new.
I agree that is possible even probable that it can be traced back to the lab. Would not surprise me if it were the result of human error in the disposal of bio-haz waste or failure to follow handling protocols. I do not believe there was anything deliberate other than Beijing's cover up once it was known the genie was out of the bottle and people were dying.
Conspiracy? I doubt it. Negligence? Quite probable.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 18:45 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab, but I don't think it's clear at this point. Lots of people on both sides seem to be very certain - but of course that's nothing new.
I agree that is possible even probable that it can be traced back to the lab. Would not surprise me if it were the result of human error in the disposal of bio-haz waste or failure to follow handling protocols. I do not believe there was anything deliberate other than Beijing's cover up once it was known the genie was out of the bottle and people were dying.
Conspiracy? I doubt it. Negligence? Quite probable.
A deliberate coverup would literally be a conspiracy.
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wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 18:59 last edited by
I think the idea that China did this deliberately is insane.
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I think the idea that China did this deliberately is insane.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 19:02 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
I think the idea that China did this deliberately is insane.
Agreed but remember it’s always the cover up that is the bigger crime. There should be a commission to investigate, I’m not saying it happened but a cover up would be a very big deal.
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wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 19:04 last edited by
Folks, if this thing came from a wet market, as the BS story goes, there are no cases within many miles of where the bats live. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at transmission probabilities.
Nah, this thing is most likely engineered. Whether it is a lab accident is the part I feel is open to debate...
