Lab Leak?
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To be sure some non partisan virologists believe it is impossible that the virus came from the lab.
If you are not coming from a place of motivated reasoning you need to keep in mind that smart, important, unbiased folks are lab skeptics.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 15:19 last edited byTo be sure some non partisan virologists believe it is impossible that the virus came from the lab.
If you are not coming from a place of motivated reasoning you need to keep in mind that smart, important, unbiased folks are lab skeptics.
Like most things having to do with a "scientific consensus" which happens to have pop culture or political importance, I know for a fact that I don't know and can only reason on indirect information from the purported conclusions of others. At which time the only way I can think about my own conclusion, is to consider the sources of the conclusions I've consumed, and their expertise and motivations.
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To be sure some non partisan virologists believe it is impossible that the virus came from the lab.
If you are not coming from a place of motivated reasoning you need to keep in mind that smart, important, unbiased folks are lab skeptics.
Like most things having to do with a "scientific consensus" which happens to have pop culture or political importance, I know for a fact that I don't know and can only reason on indirect information from the purported conclusions of others. At which time the only way I can think about my own conclusion, is to consider the sources of the conclusions I've consumed, and their expertise and motivations.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 15:44 last edited by Loki 6 Apr 2021, 15:45To be sure some non partisan virologists believe it is impossible that the virus came from the lab.
If you are not coming from a place of motivated reasoning you need to keep in mind that smart, important, unbiased folks are lab skeptics.
Like most things having to do with a "scientific consensus" which happens to have pop culture or political importance, I know for a fact that I don't know and can only reason on indirect information from the purported conclusions of others. At which time the only way I can think about my own conclusion, is to consider the sources of the conclusions I've consumed, and their expertise and motivations.
When Trump claimed Obama was born in Kenya it’s hard to know when he is being truthful. These things come back to bite you and gives the other side a huge opportunity to tell lessor untruths.
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To be sure some non partisan virologists believe it is impossible that the virus came from the lab.
If you are not coming from a place of motivated reasoning you need to keep in mind that smart, important, unbiased folks are lab skeptics.
Like most things having to do with a "scientific consensus" which happens to have pop culture or political importance, I know for a fact that I don't know and can only reason on indirect information from the purported conclusions of others. At which time the only way I can think about my own conclusion, is to consider the sources of the conclusions I've consumed, and their expertise and motivations.
When Trump claimed Obama was born in Kenya it’s hard to know when he is being truthful. These things come back to bite you and gives the other side a huge opportunity to tell lessor untruths.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 16:45 last edited byWhen Trump claimed Obama was born in Kenya it’s hard to know when he is being truthful.
I always felt that with Trump whether or not something was true was irrelevant. He essentially told people what he wanted to be true. I've worked with people like that, they make great salesmen as they seem to be able to convince themselves of all kinds of rubbish.
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wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 17:25 last edited by
Today, Fauci said he'd love to see the hospital records of the three people who were hospitalized in November, 2019.
Apparently this was known to the State Department in January, and now he's curious. That's...curious. I would think the guy in charge of infectious diseases would be all over that when it happened, not 5 months later.
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Today, Fauci said he'd love to see the hospital records of the three people who were hospitalized in November, 2019.
Apparently this was known to the State Department in January, and now he's curious. That's...curious. I would think the guy in charge of infectious diseases would be all over that when it happened, not 5 months later.
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@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
This guy's been retired for 17 years.
So, I have 12 years to catch up, LOL.
Do you really think he knows something we don't?
Maybe, maybe not. He probably knows people that we don't. Maybe they told him something that they didn't tell us?
He might well be jumping on the "leak bandwagon" as you infer. I'll reserve judgment as to whether he's right for a few
monthsyears.I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab, but I don't think it's clear at this point. Lots of people on both sides seem to be very certain - but of course that's nothing new.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 18:38 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab, but I don't think it's clear at this point. Lots of people on both sides seem to be very certain - but of course that's nothing new.
I agree that is possible even probable that it can be traced back to the lab. Would not surprise me if it were the result of human error in the disposal of bio-haz waste or failure to follow handling protocols. I do not believe there was anything deliberate other than Beijing's cover up once it was known the genie was out of the bottle and people were dying.
Conspiracy? I doubt it. Negligence? Quite probable.
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@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab, but I don't think it's clear at this point. Lots of people on both sides seem to be very certain - but of course that's nothing new.
I agree that is possible even probable that it can be traced back to the lab. Would not surprise me if it were the result of human error in the disposal of bio-haz waste or failure to follow handling protocols. I do not believe there was anything deliberate other than Beijing's cover up once it was known the genie was out of the bottle and people were dying.
Conspiracy? I doubt it. Negligence? Quite probable.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 18:45 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab, but I don't think it's clear at this point. Lots of people on both sides seem to be very certain - but of course that's nothing new.
I agree that is possible even probable that it can be traced back to the lab. Would not surprise me if it were the result of human error in the disposal of bio-haz waste or failure to follow handling protocols. I do not believe there was anything deliberate other than Beijing's cover up once it was known the genie was out of the bottle and people were dying.
Conspiracy? I doubt it. Negligence? Quite probable.
A deliberate coverup would literally be a conspiracy.
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wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 18:59 last edited by
I think the idea that China did this deliberately is insane.
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I think the idea that China did this deliberately is insane.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 19:02 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
I think the idea that China did this deliberately is insane.
Agreed but remember it’s always the cover up that is the bigger crime. There should be a commission to investigate, I’m not saying it happened but a cover up would be a very big deal.
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wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 19:04 last edited by
Folks, if this thing came from a wet market, as the BS story goes, there are no cases within many miles of where the bats live. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at transmission probabilities.
Nah, this thing is most likely engineered. Whether it is a lab accident is the part I feel is open to debate...
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Folks, if this thing came from a wet market, as the BS story goes, there are no cases within many miles of where the bats live. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at transmission probabilities.
Nah, this thing is most likely engineered. Whether it is a lab accident is the part I feel is open to debate...
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 19:07 last edited byFolks, if this thing came from a wet market, as the BS story goes, there are no cases within many miles of where the bats live. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at transmission probabilities.
Nah, this thing is most likely engineered. Whether it is a lab accident is the part I feel is open to debate...
Especially if it’s great for fund raising.
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Folks, if this thing came from a wet market, as the BS story goes, there are no cases within many miles of where the bats live. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at transmission probabilities.
Nah, this thing is most likely engineered. Whether it is a lab accident is the part I feel is open to debate...
Especially if it’s great for fund raising.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 19:11 last edited byFolks, if this thing came from a wet market, as the BS story goes, there are no cases within many miles of where the bats live. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at transmission probabilities.
Nah, this thing is most likely engineered. Whether it is a lab accident is the part I feel is open to debate...
Especially if it’s great for fund raising.
Remind me, what BSL lab did you work in?
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Folks, if this thing came from a wet market, as the BS story goes, there are no cases within many miles of where the bats live. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at transmission probabilities.
Nah, this thing is most likely engineered. Whether it is a lab accident is the part I feel is open to debate...
Especially if it’s great for fund raising.
Remind me, what BSL lab did you work in?
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 19:24 last edited byFolks, if this thing came from a wet market, as the BS story goes, there are no cases within many miles of where the bats live. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at transmission probabilities.
Nah, this thing is most likely engineered. Whether it is a lab accident is the part I feel is open to debate...
Especially if it’s great for fund raising.
Remind me, what BSL lab did you work in?
None for sure but I do have a close friend who is a leading virologist for a big Pharma company and he has stated to me directly it has all the markings of making a leap vs coming from a lab. I don’t know enough as to what to make of it but his education and reputation is pretty amazing.
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Folks, if this thing came from a wet market, as the BS story goes, there are no cases within many miles of where the bats live. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at transmission probabilities.
Nah, this thing is most likely engineered. Whether it is a lab accident is the part I feel is open to debate...
Especially if it’s great for fund raising.
Remind me, what BSL lab did you work in?
None for sure but I do have a close friend who is a leading virologist for a big Pharma company and he has stated to me directly it has all the markings of making a leap vs coming from a lab. I don’t know enough as to what to make of it but his education and reputation is pretty amazing.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 19:55 last edited byFolks, if this thing came from a wet market, as the BS story goes, there are no cases within many miles of where the bats live. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at transmission probabilities.
Nah, this thing is most likely engineered. Whether it is a lab accident is the part I feel is open to debate...
Especially if it’s great for fund raising.
Remind me, what BSL lab did you work in?
None for sure but I do have a close friend who is a leading virologist for a big Pharma company and he has stated to me directly it has all the markings of making a leap vs coming from a lab. I don’t know enough as to what to make of it but his education and reputation is pretty amazing.
If it comes out that this was engineered in a lab, will you lose respect for your friend's expertise?
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wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 20:59 last edited by
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@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab, but I don't think it's clear at this point. Lots of people on both sides seem to be very certain - but of course that's nothing new.
I agree that is possible even probable that it can be traced back to the lab. Would not surprise me if it were the result of human error in the disposal of bio-haz waste or failure to follow handling protocols. I do not believe there was anything deliberate other than Beijing's cover up once it was known the genie was out of the bottle and people were dying.
Conspiracy? I doubt it. Negligence? Quite probable.
A deliberate coverup would literally be a conspiracy.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 21:55 last edited by Renauda 6 Apr 2021, 22:17@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab, but I don't think it's clear at this point. Lots of people on both sides seem to be very certain - but of course that's nothing new.
I agree that is possible even probable that it can be traced back to the lab. Would not surprise me if it were the result of human error in the disposal of bio-haz waste or failure to follow handling protocols. I do not believe there was anything deliberate other than Beijing's cover up once it was known the genie was out of the bottle and people were dying.
Conspiracy? I doubt it. Negligence? Quite probable.
A deliberate coverup would literally be a conspiracy.
In the case of China, a coverup would be routine state policy when something goes awry that would embarrass the leadership. At the same time it is also axiomatic that conspiracy forms the basis for Marxist-Leninist governance - that is what Leninism is. China has never departed from M-L ideology no matter how much we in the West, have tried to convince ourselves otherwise.
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wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 22:02 last edited by
produce variants that suggest it came from bats to cover up that coronavirus originally came from a lab
OK
We'll produce variants that suggest it came from a lab to cover up that coronavirus originally came from a bat
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Folks, if this thing came from a wet market, as the BS story goes, there are no cases within many miles of where the bats live. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at transmission probabilities.
Nah, this thing is most likely engineered. Whether it is a lab accident is the part I feel is open to debate...
Especially if it’s great for fund raising.
Remind me, what BSL lab did you work in?
None for sure but I do have a close friend who is a leading virologist for a big Pharma company and he has stated to me directly it has all the markings of making a leap vs coming from a lab. I don’t know enough as to what to make of it but his education and reputation is pretty amazing.
If it comes out that this was engineered in a lab, will you lose respect for your friend's expertise?
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 22:33 last edited byFolks, if this thing came from a wet market, as the BS story goes, there are no cases within many miles of where the bats live. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at transmission probabilities.
Nah, this thing is most likely engineered. Whether it is a lab accident is the part I feel is open to debate...
Especially if it’s great for fund raising.
Remind me, what BSL lab did you work in?
None for sure but I do have a close friend who is a leading virologist for a big Pharma company and he has stated to me directly it has all the markings of making a leap vs coming from a lab. I don’t know enough as to what to make of it but his education and reputation is pretty amazing.
If it comes out that this was engineered in a lab, will you lose respect for your friend's expertise?
Based on the hubris absolutely.
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@doctor-phibes said in Lab Leak?:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing leaked from the Wuhan lab, but I don't think it's clear at this point. Lots of people on both sides seem to be very certain - but of course that's nothing new.
I agree that is possible even probable that it can be traced back to the lab. Would not surprise me if it were the result of human error in the disposal of bio-haz waste or failure to follow handling protocols. I do not believe there was anything deliberate other than Beijing's cover up once it was known the genie was out of the bottle and people were dying.
Conspiracy? I doubt it. Negligence? Quite probable.
A deliberate coverup would literally be a conspiracy.
In the case of China, a coverup would be routine state policy when something goes awry that would embarrass the leadership. At the same time it is also axiomatic that conspiracy forms the basis for Marxist-Leninist governance - that is what Leninism is. China has never departed from M-L ideology no matter how much we in the West, have tried to convince ourselves otherwise.
wrote on 4 Jun 2021, 23:25 last edited byIn the case of China, a coverup would be routine state policy when something goes awry that would embarrass the leadership. At the same time it is also axiomatic that conspiracy forms the basis for Marxist-Leninist governance - that is what Leninism is. China has never departed from M-L ideology no matter how much we in the West, have tried to convince ourselves otherwise.
And North Korea is China writ large, at least in terms of philosophy.
